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E-bike Life Span and Related Questions

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#61 ·
@drew502

In simple terms, "environmental virtue signaling" is the act of publicly expressing opinions or taking actions that are meant to demonstrate one's moral correctness on environmental issues. The term is almost always used with a critical or cynical tone, implying that the person's primary motivation isn't to create positive change, but rather to enhance their own social image and show others they are a good person.

Essentially, it’s when the "look at me being green" part is louder than the "actually being green" part. An example might be loudly shaming someone for using a plastic fork while ignoring more significant, less visible environmental issues. It prioritizes the performance of righteousness over the substance of it, often distracting from more complex or difficult conversations—like the one about e-bike battery lifecycles and disposal in this very thread.
 
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Discussion starter · #62 ·
ForaFrank said:
@drew502

In simple terms, "environmental virtue signaling" is the act of publicly expressing opinions or taking actions that are meant to demonstrate one's moral correctness on environmental issues. The term is almost always used with a critical or cynical tone, implying that the person's primary motivation isn't to create positive change, but rather to enhance their own social image and show others they are a good person.

Essentially, it’s when the "look at me being green" part is louder than the "actually being green" part. An example might be loudly shaming someone for using a plastic fork while ignoring more significant, less visible environmental issues. It prioritizes the performance of righteousness over the substance of it, often distracting from more complex or difficult conversations—like the one about e-bike battery lifecycles and disposal in this very thread.
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LMAO . . . yeah, that's pretty much what I thought!
 
#65 ·
homegrownappleslice said:
Believe what you like I guess. Toss an e-bike and old batteries into the landfill every few years and say it’s fine because you read a biased article written by the e-bike industry.
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...after we are done killin each other the new civilization that arrives will be diggin all that stuff up again anyway...
 
Discussion starter · #66 ·
I'm guessing that there will be a fair amount of variability in ongoing support between brands . . . ? I'm hoping that since Pivot is a higher end brand that there may be better extended support. Admittedly, this is nothing but a pipe dream and it could work in reverse - i.e. planned obsolescence.
 
#67 ·
Perhaps a good example is look at a high end trail/enduro bike that's ten years old to get an idea of the depreciation.

Then work backwards on one, two, three year old ebikes and see if they are on the same trajectory.

I mean no one is buying first gen Nissan Leafs but a dead battery is much easier to replace on an Ebike. Maybe the key is to buy a spare battery before they stop being offered.
 
Discussion starter · #68 · (Edited)
Mudguard said:
Perhaps a good example is look at a high end trail/enduro bike that's ten years old to get an idea of the depreciation.

Then work backwards on one, two, three year old ebikes and see if they are on the same trajectory.

I mean no one is buying first gen Nissan Leafs but a dead battery is much easier to replace on an Ebike. Maybe the key is to buy a spare battery before they stop being offered.
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Any science/engineer types know what the shelf life is for a new/unused battery? I wonder if any businesses will start up to repair motors and provide batteries for no longer supported e-bikes - seems like it might be a decent business idea.
 
#69 ·
drew502 said:
Any science/engineer types know what the shelf life is for a new/unused battery? I wonder if any businesses will start up to repair motors and provide batteries for no longer supported e-bikes - seems like it might be a decent business idea.
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There are three things which affect the life of a Li-Ion battery:
1. Charge cycles - Most decent quality batteries can hit 1,000 cycles with about 10-20% loss in capacity.
2. Storage at high SOC - Storing batteries over 80% charge will accelerate their capacity loss.
3. Storage at low SOC - Li-Ion batteries self discharge over time, and if the battery's' charge drops below a certain level the battery becomes unstable, having issues holding a charge and increasing the chances of thermal runaway. If the battery is stored with too low a charge, it will self-discharge below the safe level. This is why I do a monthly check of my all my batteries to make sure they're above 30% charge, and I'll top them up if necessary.
 
#70 ·
drew502 said:
I'm guessing that there will be a fair amount of variability in ongoing support between brands . . . ? I'm hoping that since Pivot is a higher end brand that there may be better extended support. Admittedly, this is nothing but a pipe dream and it could work in reverse - i.e. planned obsolescence.
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Quality and status in MTB are not what I would look for to assure avaiabilty of support in another market. I would look for size, and satbility. Trek, and Electra are pairing up. Both of them are large established brands. if a vendor can no longer support their products they can find another supplier. What would a smaller player do. Abandon that segment, or even go out of business trying to support their new products?
 
Discussion starter · #71 ·
William P said:
Quality and status in MTB are not what I would look for to assure avaiabilty of support in another market. I would look for size, and satbility. Trek, and Electra are pairing up. Both of them are large established brands. if a vendor can no longer support their products they can find another supplier. What would a smaller player do. Abandon that segment, or even go out of business trying to support their new products?
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Fair points! Economies of scale may help with long term support - Giant also comes to mind.
 
#72 ·
Trek has dedicated dealers often with long histories in their community. Giant is big enough, but dealer support may come and go. But there have been converted Giant bikes from Luna Cycles with BBSHD motors and generic batteries for years. But I think size matters. So there's history in that genre also.
 
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