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The purpose of 1X drivetrain

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#261 ·
TylerVernon said:
I'm finding that 11speed is still easy to get.. I can still buy new 1199 cassettes and Shimano derailleurs and shifters, but the 12 speed versions also work.
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The problem is all of the bikes in the house are HG (except for my main bike) so I don't want to go to twelve speed. Well I could put twelve speed NX on as I have that sitting here but I'd rather not! Be a bit like putting steelies on a nice car!
 
#262 ·
dowsett2012 said:
With regard to wheel-sizes: I am pretty sure that I never refuted the fact that larger-wheels could: Roll better, over: "The rough-stuff". My point was that if this ability was not needed, then the negative attributes should be considered.

There are definitely reasons other than advertising for people buying/choosing what they do. However, advertising has a greater-affect than most people realise. Most of the bike-related media on the internet is marketing-material! All the videos you watch. How many people here question the capacity in which they are made?!
"Muc-Off" is just a marketing-company! How many people on here are guilty of buying their re-branded products?!

As far as I am aware, all I was doing was writing statements that were factually accurate. The responses did nothing to disprove those statements. Most of the people on this forum can't even read properly. As illustrated by taking things out of context and all the misquoted-comments that I supposedly wrote.
I made statements that then got passively-aggressively ridiculed by ignorant people. I backed them up, or at least tried to. Then people started throwing their toys out of the pram and making foolish comments presuming to know how I was feeling. I'm not the one that is upset/playing a victim (I know it wasn't you that wrote this)

I don't know how to deal with sensitive-people that get "Butt hurt" when a negative-attribute relating to their pride-and-joy is pointed out to them.
People have unashamedly admitted to essentially "Living" in this forum and that isn't healthy. Perception and comprehension etc are not absolute, but people here are so sure that they have interpreted my comments accurately and yet, they can't even quote them properly despite them being written down in front of them.

I never claimed to be or acted like a "Know-it-all". I made comments that were based on fact. No one here proved what I wrote wrong.
There is no intelligent debate.
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You’re right. There isn’t. Because you typed things like this:

“10T, and certainly 9T, aren't really enough teeth. The "Power-delivery" is too "Jerky" because they are too far from an aproximated circle.”

That’s absurd. I assume you’re trolling us, but if that’s serious you should reconsider.
 
#263 · (Edited)
Mudguard said:
Perpendicular dropper levers are awful. I know. I have three of them in my toolbox.
And I'd have to work out where I could actually fit it with a brake and shifter as well.

A 40t chainring is huge. I generally pedal on trail rides at 80-100rpm, I think I would struggle to push a 40t now.
What is your cassette, 11-40t?
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It depends, I can't always use the 40T, but a 3X can be essentially a 1X. You just use the middle chainring for the majority of rough/boggy offroad. For paved and unpaved-roads such as "Gravel", I use the 40T a lot. I'm ordinarily nowhere near using the 11t all the time on the flat though. The drag from the knobbly-tyres are an accepted compromise.
For sprinting, the rate at which you apply a force through the pedals, matters more than the magnitude of the largest-force of which you are capable. A bit like cars where petrol tends to be faster than diesel because they can rev higher. To sprint at over 30mph, I had to improve my coordination and make sure that I was never lifting the non-power-stroke leg with the power-stroke-leg. At high rpms this becomes increasingly difficult. Or at least, it did for me. You really have to spin and change up through the gears because you'll never overcome the inertia trying to grind gears that are too difficult.

11-40t. The road-bike has an 11-42, but that is a 2x11. I needed the extra range over a standard road cassette for the 100mile Peak District tour.


ridewithgps.com

Peaks Tour - Long - 2025

160.0 km, +2600 m. Bike ride in Derbyshire Dales, England
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#264 ·
dowsett2012 said:
It depends, I can't always use the 40T, but a 3X can be essentially a 1X. You just use the middle chainring for the majority of rough/boggy offroad.
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And we did. It was a great way of working out your chainring size for 1x. But the problem is chain retention. I'll be honest, I can't get anywhere near 30mph on a pushbike. I've never tried on a road bike.
If your trails aren't bumpy enough to need the chain retention, great. But even the trails I ride which I think are smooth will dislodge chains chains left right and centre.

If you need to commute to trails then fair enough, but I can happily do mid twenties (kmh) on the road on my fitness loop not even in my top gear.
With a triple you should be able to do most rides in the UK without going anywhere near your granny gear as it's lower than most running 1x
 
#265 ·
Clyde Ride said:
You’re right. There isn’t. Because you typed things like this:

“10T, and certainly 9T, aren't really enough teeth. The "Power-delivery" is too "Jerky" because they are too far from an aproximated circle.”

That’s absurd. I assume you’re trolling us, but if that’s serious you should reconsider.
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Are you feeling lonely/bored? That reply wasn't to you and you've repeated yourself seemingly desperate for a reaction. You think that you are ridiculing me, but you've essentially just told me that you're not really an engineer.
Maybe I could put it down to the word: "Jerk", meaning something different in the States, but the context means that you should have worked out what was meant; if you were actually an engineer.
Fewer teeth than standard 11T Jockey wheels.
 
#266 ·
Mudguard said:
The problem is all of the bikes in the house are HG (except for my main bike) so I don't want to go to twelve speed. Well I could put twelve speed NX on as I have that sitting here but I'd rather not! Be a bit like putting steelies on a nice car!
Click to expand...
no, I mean the 12 speed deraillers and shifters work with 11 speed cassettes.
 
#267 ·
TylerVernon said:
no, I mean the 12 speed deraillers and shifters work with 11 speed cassettes.
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Ah I did wonder. I'll be honest, I've only got one bike I've mixed and matched on and even that is technically the same speed (X01 shifter, derailleur, XT chain and cassette) all eleven speed.

I generally prefer to keep them one or the other but not essential I guess.
 
#268 ·
TylerVernon said:
no, I mean the 12 speed deraillers and shifters work with 11 speed cassettes.
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From what I know they kind of do with Hyperglide, they don't with Linkglide. The cassette spacing of hyperglide and linkglide is different for 10/11 speed. So if you put a 12 speed derailleur on an 11 speed hyperglide, it will work, but not if you put it on 11 speed linkglide. Thats a total bummer for me since I am deep in hyperglide+.
 
#270 ·
#271 ·
William P said:
Getting rid of the front triple left room for me to add a White ENO Front Freehwheel to my bike.
Nature hates a vacuum.
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Looking at your other thread discussing this - have you had issues with things getting sucked in the chain at the chainring? Seems like a bad day if a shoelace or pant leg got caught, or is there a way for it to break free if there's interference?
 
#272 ·
William P said:
The smaller cogs are less efficient by a few percent. 11t was pretty bad. 10t will be even worse.
Here's a chart from the road bike guys.
IMO 12s isn't worth swapping hubs to get there. 9t, maybe the Ebikes don't care.
Buty I'm glad everyone is jumping on the 12s bandwagon. That drives down the price of the obsolete 11s stuff for me. Fits my 8s hubs just fine.
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I believe this is frictional losses due to links rotating with respect to each other further. That's one of the drivers for large diameter jockey wheels. I think Dowsett is claiming that he can feel the difference in jerk (change in acceleration) between the two. Not sure my legs are that sensitive, but I wont attempt to judge his experiences.
 
#273 ·
jones007 said:
I believe this is frictional losses due to links rotating with respect to each other further. That's one of the drivers for large diameter jockey wheels. I think Dowsett is claiming that he can feel the difference in jerk (change in acceleration) between the two. Not sure my legs are that sensitive, but I wont attempt to judge his experiences.
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Smaller cogs feel a bit "rougher" to me, but I get used to it like two seconds after I shift. I've never ridden a 9 tooth, though.
 
#274 · (Edited)
jones007 said:
Looking at your other thread discussing this - have you had issues with things getting sucked in the chain at the chainring? Seems like a bad day if a shoelace or pant leg got caught, or is there a way for it to break free if there's interference?
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It's not anything like that. I also ride an urban Ebike. Changes to one bike can lead to changes on the other.
The Ebike Front Freewheel mod. stopped chain breakage from shifting without pedaling ( up and down shifts on traffic circles etc.) Not a good problem to have in rush hour traffic.
But this ruined my pedaling/shifting habits. I saw some Ebike ENOs on Ebay and found some cranks they fit.
So there's no real reason for anyone else to do this. Intend Magic Cranks has this covered for hard MTB use. Shimano has brought it back too. I think they call it Freeshift.
But the rear freehub is locked out with tiny zip ties through the spokes on the XC bike= breakaway.
The Ebike has a greased rubber slip ring between the cassette and hub flange = Failsafe
The mid drive Ebike already had a ront freewheel. The slip ring was the whole FFW mod. Chain management took some doing though.
 
#275 ·
William P said:
It's not anything like that. I also ride an urban Ebike. Changes to one bike can lead to changes on the other.
The Ebike Front Freewheel mod. stopped chain breakage from shifting without pedaling ( up and down shifts on traffic circles etc.) Not a good problem to have in rush hour traffic.
But this ruined my pedaling/shifting habits. I saw some Ebike ENOs on Ebay and found some cranks they fit.
So there's no real reason for anyone else to do this. Intend Magic Cranks has this covered for hard MTB use. Shimano has brought it back too. I think they call it Freeshift.
But the rear freehub is locked out with tiny zip ties through the spokes on the XC bike= breakaway.
The Ebike has a greased rubber slip ring between the cassette and hub flange = Failsafe
The mid drive Ebike already had a ront freewheel. The slip ring was the whole FFW mod. Chain management took some doing though.
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I can see it being useful on e-bikes. I don’t think I’d like it on analog, as I’d been paying for chain drag while coasting, although shifting while freewheeling would be interesting. Honestly, all my bikes have gripshift, so I can quickly rifle through gears coasting with maybe one rotation of the cranks.
 
#276 ·
jones007 said:
I can see it being useful on e-bikes. I don’t think I’d like it on analog, as I’d been paying for chain drag while coasting, although shifting while freewheeling would be interesting. Honestly, all my bikes have gripshift, so I can quickly rifle through gears coasting with maybe one rotation of the cranks.
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My Ebike is Gripshift ,and Rapid Rise, and Front Freewheel. Basically it shifts like an IGH.
SRAM NX Gripshifter worked great with the Zee M640, and 11-42 cassette on the XC bike. I'm just so used to it from the Ebike it's how I ride now. I went to XT triggers on the XC because the reverse pattern of the Rapid Rise Ebike caused blown shifts. The Rene Herse Extralight gravel slicks roll so fast I don't notice the drag, but I know it's there. I'll get them both back to gripshift if I can. But they have to turn the same way.
I did have the ENO set up 72poe, and took that out to cut drag. 36poe now.
 
#278 ·
On FFW the ratchet sound goes with pedal speed. This can tell you when you're in the right gear to resume pedaling. You can shift by ear like on a motorcycle. Coasting down a hill you can stay in the right gear, or just grab it later.
Also engagement angle or backlash is always the same no matter what gear you're in. 36poe = 10* in all gears. 72poe =5*.
DT Swiss has an article on this where you can calculate what you're actually getting in various gears.
 
#279 ·
I use 1x mostly and have no need to go back to anything else, hell, if I still rode a road bike( quit a couple of years ago due to too many close calls) I'd run 1x on that too.
1x by gives me all the range I need, it provides fast and reliable shifts, it's a lot quieter and the engagement feels way more connected, almost like my single speed.
 
#280 ·
William P said:
On FFW the ratchet sound goes with pedal speed. This can tell you when you're in the right gear to resume pedaling. You can shift by ear like on a motorcycle. Coasting down a hill you can stay in the right gear, or just grab it later.
Also engagement angle or backlash is always the same no matter what gear you're in. 36poe = 10* in all gears. 72poe =5*.
DT Swiss has an article on this where you can calculate what you're actually getting in various gears.
Click to expand...
All my good wheels have Hydra or Solix hubs. I like to ride tech, and really like the instant engagement when clocking the cranks to power over things. I'm not sure I've seen data on it, but I suspect that power loss to a ratchet is considerably less than power loss to the chain. Probably the data is out there though.
 
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