ETA: The conclusion

Pet Store Intern · Jul 22, 2025

bdamschen said:
That was... Very specific.

But also… very accurate.

547319 · Jul 22, 2025

The hate of ebikes is interesting. I think it's mostly from people who have never been slow.

When I started biking I was the slowest up hills. I pulled over for everyone.

I got faster and very rarely was passed. But I still remember being the slowest and pulling over.

As eBikes got more popular, in general I could care less, if it's easy to pull over I do. I have enough practice at it anyway. If I need a couple minutes I tell them what I am doing and where to go.

If someone wants to be a dick about being passed (whether they are on a eBike or a bike) the group I ride with can make the pass happen.

If I am on an ebike I try and stick to climbing on fireroads.

What's even more annoying though is ebikers who refuse to move over for ebikers

It's amazing how much more pleasant your interactions are when you remember to breathe and everyone is outside to have fun.

twowheelmotion said:
Ok ok. Now shed any sort of etiquette you learned since then, get a huge jacked up truck and transport your ebike using orange ratchet straps on both bars, then get some saggy basketball shorts, XXXL white tee shirt, one of those string backpacks they hand out as a door prize at whatever event, put a bong in that bag, get some air Jordans - don't lace them, make sure you try hard to leave any essential survival gear in the car except an aquafina water bottle for your water bottle holder, tangle the strap to your helmet up in the bars as you wont be needing a helmet since you are so good at bikes because you used to "race BMX" then turbo yourself up he DH flipping off spando-randos on 29er poor people bikes, but make sure you break down or run out of battery like 20 miles from the trailhead and get rescued and end up on the news hailed as a hero for surviving the rugged wilderness whilst looking for the nearest starbucks.

This screams SoCal to me. Luckily I don't think many people have to put up with this.

3_Dimensional · Jul 22, 2025

cassieno said:
The hate of ebikes is interesting. I think it's mostly from people who have never been slow.

When I started biking I was the slowest up hills. I pulled over for everyone.

I got faster and very rarely was passed. But I still remember being the slowest and pulling over.

As eBikes got more popular, in general I could care less, if it's easy to pull over I do. If I need a couple minutes I tell them what I am doing and where to go.

If someone wants to be a dick about being passed (whether they are on a eBike or a bike) the group I ride with can make the pass happen.

If I am on an ebike I try and stick to climbing on fireroads.

What's even more annoying though is ebikers who refuse to move over for ebikers

It's amazing how much more pleasant your interactions are when you remember to breathe and everyone is outside to have fun.

This screams SoCal to me. Luckily I don't think many people have to put up with this.

I definitely feel like ebikes (which are near guaranteed to pass almost all MTBs) will always cause a little more trouble on singletrack than on fire roads, just because there's so much less room to pass on singletrack, plus there are tech sections people want to clean. Big egos will always be miffed by ebikes passing them anywhere but there are a lot fewer legitimate issues that arise on fire roads. IMO

Cue people saying "well fast MTBs pass slot MTBs anyway." True, but at the same time, the fact is that average guys like me get passed a lot less by fast MYBs than by EMTBs. Also not suggesting that we can EMTBs from climbing singletrack. Just one more shade or gray to consider out on the trails.

twowheelmotion · Jul 22, 2025

bdamschen said:
That was... Very specific.

Based on real life events. Every Sunday. MTBR would break if half the peeps here encountered this dude IRL. He's not quite right mentally. Few weeks back he was in the lot. We had just got back from a ride, and he had dog sh*t all over his tires, but it wasn't just on the trail. There was a bunch all by his truck door he didnt see and he starts screaming "WHAT THE FFFFFF IS THIS!!!?" Dude had it EVERYWHERE. On the bike. On his shoes. He was trying to scrape it with a stick. It was so bad.

547319 · Jul 22, 2025

3_Dimensional said:
Cue people saying "well fast MTBs pass slot MTBs anyway." True, but at the same time, the fact is that average guys like me get passed a lot less by fast MYBs than by EMTBs. Also not suggesting that we can EMTBs from climbing singletrack. Just one more shade or gray to consider out on the trails.

Completely agree. Once you are fast enough (for your area) you will not be passed that often. eBikes came along and suddenly people are getting passed again. Some eBikers suck (depending on your area maybe all of them), take someone who just needs to be pissed all the time at how disrespectful everyone is, perfect internet rage fuel.

People suck. Get over it and move on.

the real slim shaky · Jul 22, 2025

one of my favorite things in mtb is sending a climb. a lot of times i will get up really early so i can have my best chance at minimizing things that can prevent the send. if a person on regular bike catches up with me i have a lot less heartburn getting off and letting them pass than i would someone on an ebike. the real biker may be on track for a PB or onsite, and i will cheer them on. on the other hand, if i see someone ahead climbing and i am gaining on them i will try to adjust my pace to not jam them (which is more rare, 'cause i aint the fastest). basically i try to accommodate the people who are working hard.

one of my favorite climbing memories is my first time doing the dunn road near palm springs. i was plugging away at it and there was a guy a ways ahead grinding up it pretty slowly. there were several sections where i would try to punch it up some steeper spots to keep balance/traction and i kept gaining on him. at one point there was a turn and i could see the guy, and i was really shocked at how old he was. he had to be 80 years old. and he kept grinding. at that point i figured i would try to stay off him, and i had to do some really slow balance riding. it was pretty tough for me.

i got to the top and this guy was absolutely wasted. he could barely talk. i asked him if he no-dabbed that sum-bizzatch, and all he could do was nod happily. i was so psyched for that guy.

547319 · Jul 22, 2025

the real slim shaky said:
one of my favorite climbing memories is my first time doing the dunn road near palm springs.

One of my favorite climbing memories is getting passed by an old lady hiking up a steep fire road when I first started biking again. When she got to the top she told the group I was with "He is coming. He is just slow"

DavidEstaFuera said:
Editing to add the trail, since that seems to have come into play...I guess "tech" trail means different things to different people. Anyhow, this video isn't me, and I have no idea who they are, it was the first one to pop-up in my Youtube search:

I just watched your video and have decided Everyone really sucks here. This is the climb the eBiker couldn't figure out how to get around you on? This is the climb where you couldn't move slightly over to one side and let the eBiker get by? There is so much room and so many opportunities. Based off of your whining I was expecting a trail with actually no places that made sense to pull over or pass. Instead you show a trail where you would not even have had to slow down....this is what I was picturing. Passing options suck (ebikes can make it happen), no real place to move over and maintain momentum.

Here you go - next time you can yell. I am going left. Boost it right. so so many spots like that.

DavidEstaFuera · Jul 22, 2025

cassieno said:
One of my favorite climbing memories is getting passed by an old lady hiking up a steep fire road when I first started biking again. When she got to the top she told the group I was with "He is coming. He is just slow"

I just watched your video and have decided Everyone really sucks here. This is the
climb the eBiker couldn't figure out how to get around you on? This is the climb where you couldn't move slightly over to one side and let the eBiker get by? There is so much room and so many opportunities. Based off of your whining I was expecting a trail with actually no places that made sense to pull over or pass. Instead you should a trail where you would not even have had to slow down....this is what I was picturing. Passing options suck (ebikes can make it happen), no real place to move over and maintain momentum.
View attachment 2154378

Here you go - next time you can yell. I am going left. Boost it right. so so many spots like that.
View attachment 2154379

Lol, you cherry pick a specific section out of a 5 mile long trail that normally takes around 50-60 minutes to finish. The lack of reading comprehension is astounding in this thread. Also, just judging by your counter-example, you're totally ignorant to riding in the desert. We have these spikey plants called "cactus." Tires and cactus don't get along well. Now you know.

Anyways, to each and everyone one of you offended, pretentious, arrogant, high and mighty social justice warriors who are offended by absolutely everything anyways, and make absolutely everything into something it's not because your lives lack any other real meaning or purpose:

I don't care about your opinions. I'm right, if you don't agree with me, you're wrong. End of debate. E-Bikes are not bikes. They yield to regular bikes in all situations, up or down, whether or not they are allowed on the trail or not. End of story, case closed.

I've ignored so many people that at this point, that the responses to this thread aren't even coherent anyhow lol.

_CJ · Jul 22, 2025

bdamschen said:
Yeah, he did all that, but at the same time even without the accuracy of precise power numbers, he's still correct. Most ebikers(save for statistical outliers that are younger/older/weaker/fatter than average) are putting down considerably more power than the average XC rider climbing a hill and have a much higher power to weight ratio.

Thinking back to any climbing interaction I've ever had on a hill all the way back to 1986 when I started, I don't think I've ever expected someone just to move over when I caught them unless it was either a race and they're not in my class or they were walking their bike. I don't see how that would change even with the advent of ebikes. As soon as they're off their bike or have a foot down however, GTFO the way.

I put down a whole 55 watts more on my ebike vs. my ATB. Same "fast recreational" pace on each bike, same route/trails. All these hypothetical doomsday theories are just the fanciful speculations of haters that have no basis in reality. For sure, an XC racer on an XC racing bike would be faster than I was on either of these bikes.

plummet · Jul 22, 2025

JohnShroe said:
I too don’t love the term “yield” here but am using it colloquially because what we’re talking about is really etiquette.

It’s important we talk about peak numbers because otherwise we’re just splitting hairs on modes and gearing make/model and tires and as you’ve both pointed out, that becomes an infinite regression that only serves to distract from what we’re really talking about here which is how motorized bike riders behave on the trail in relation to eevvvvvvveryone else not having the advantage of a motor and most importantly the uphill speed deltas this motor/no-motor shared trail issues creates.

Because of that added power (being an outlier on most trails) I place the onus on the e-bike rider when it comes to how they manage their relationships to other trail users. This thread has attempted to place the burden on the OP, but I think we can all agree he’s within his right to NOT pull over the instant an e-bike got on his wheel. Most e-bikers understand that with their motors comes extra responsibility to manage their relationships to other trail users, as you both have pointed out that usually means giving people space and not exploiting the added power to force others off the trail. E-bikers would all do well to understand how mtb works and that there is a culture to cleaning difficult sections and short punchy climbs.

Hypothetically an e-biker rides the trails in a similar way to Tom Pidcock - being the fastest means you have THE MOST responsibility to make nice and behave appropriately and understand when to give space and that your “gift” is also huge responsibility to ensure you’re not ruining other people’s time on trail.

Unlike Tom Pidcock, an ebiker would do well to understand that he/she didn’t “earn the speed” they are getting to use on trail. As much as we live in an increasingly nerf’d and tyrannically equal-outcome based society, among trail users and bikers in particular there is still a traditional system of respect and honor for those who have earned their speed, that system of honor and respect IS under attack, but while it doesn’t exist on trail signs it still exists.

All this to say, with speed and power comes personal responsibly and accountability. (no matter what you want to call the figures or how much you want to repeat that 18mph vs 15mph is important to this end)

btw I have no hate of e-bikes, but I can’t stand e-bikers not respecting trail culture.

My play on all of this is that all trail users need to respect each others personal right to enjoyment. Your fun is not more important that mine and vise versa. A hikers fun is not more important than your nor us yours to them.

Each interaction with other users on the trail needs to be from a place of mutual respect for each others right to enjoy themselves. If we do that then everyone gets along.

What that means, if i am going faster than you up a hill, i patiently wait until there's a place to safely pass. We exchange pleasantries, and then when there is a enough room to pass you make you best efforts to allow me to pass without having to stop yourself. That is the only way that it works. It does matter whether its a hiker or biker or e biker of moto rider. We all need to respect each other.

As soon you apply a "I have earned my turn" mentallity and that user has not therefore i deserve extra privilege that whole respect system breaks down and we get interactions like what the op did.
In his instance was the e biker a dick? yes. But he could have interacted positively to that guy given him respect and the whole situation would be have been diffused rather than blown up.

AlpineVulpine · Jul 22, 2025

Well, this ran in circles for 20 pages until it devolved into pretty much nothing but personal attacks. You all seem very good at showing who on here is about civility and trail etiquette, and who is about entitlement and "being right". I think I've been light-handed with the warnings, but I won't be next time.

ETA: The conclusion

Am I the jerk?

Yes

No

I like turtles

Pet Store Intern

547319

3_Dimensional

twowheelmotion

547319

the real slim shaky

547319

DavidEstaFuera

_CJ

plummet

AlpineVulpine

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