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Am I the jerk?

  • Yes

    Votes: 46 34%
  • No

    Votes: 62 46%
  • I like turtles

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What makes you think or gives you the impression the person from behind was looking to pass at that given moment and time? It was just a vocal gesture. The elitist OP wasn't even aware of the machine that was behind him....he would have been startled nonetheless if another rider came up from behind on an ostrich...nothing about "behind you" suggests "move over, NOW." Again, this confirms the toxic nature and groundless discrimination from elitist geared riders towards anyone who rides anything but a regular bike.
we can only respond to the OP's story as he has given it, it's the only available information we have, and it's certainly enough to go by. Otherwise we're just making up nonsensical "what ifs" that are even more removed from the available evidence and have no basis that can be agreed upon.
 
That's completely ridiculous. That might be the most insane thing I've read in the past month, and with all the insanity in the world right now, that's really saying something. An airplane is just a different class of car. A turd is just a different class of a meal.

Honestly, I'll keep it somewhat civil and leave it as "ridiculous."
The reality is that there are different classes of bikes that different speed up and down hill. Some of them are now e classes. That is how the governments of the world classify them and how local clubs and race organizers classify them. They are simply a different class of bike.

I am about to enter an enduro race series. Do I race e bike class or do I race mtb class. There's two race options for mtb. Pedal up all the hills and shuttle up the hills option.
In that race there's 3 hardness levels.

Hardest is he pedal up mtb class, second hardest is the pedal up ebike class and the easiest class is the shuttle up mtb class. Racing the enduro down is similar hardness on all bikes. The E's take a bit more effort on the down because they are heavier. The freshest riders at the end of the race will definitely be the shuttle up mtb guys.

Out of this scenario do you still scoff the e-biker or does the shuttle up mtb guy get more scorn?

Now back to differential speeds between classes a dh bike pedalling is bt far the slowest up a hill and the differential speed between xc and dh uphill is far far more than xc and E. If you wanted to make and arguement for effort expended to get up a hill an xc bike takes way less effort than an enduro bike should I mock you for cheating for taking an easy to pedal bike up a hill.

The mtb world is filled with more layers of grey than the black and white that you propose.
 
The next time someone catches me on a descent I'm going to shout, "How many millimeters of travel do you have???" If it's more than mine then I'll make them wait until the bottom of the hill.
This kerfuffle started over uphill etiquette. So how do we handle downhill yielding? I guarantee I am slower than most everyone else downhill. I've been known to ride up and take the lift down. If I hear someone catching me on a descent, I move over and let 'em go by. I don't want anyone up in my business while I thread my way down the hill.

The only rides with long enough descents for this to even be an issue are where I'm only doing one lap a day. Two at most. Historically, I would simply treat anyone catching me downhill as a faster descender and not think any more about it. But now I'm wondering how many of those folks might be "assisted" getting to the top and doing 3 or 4 or more laps. Am I really obliged to interrupt my one ride down so that the e-bikers are not inconvenienced on their fifth lap of the day?
 
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Discussion starter · #247 ·
Out of this scenario do you still scoff the e-biker or does the shuttle up mtb guy get more scorn?

The mtb world is filled with more layers of grey than the black and white that you propose.
1) I'm not going to debate hypothetical scenarios. I'm here to voice my opinion about specifically the situation I relayed in the OP.

2) Yes, the world is filled with gray. But people such as yourself are not helping anything, and I would argue are actually detrimental to the general well-being of everyone by refusing to acknowledge that not everything is indeed gray.
 
I’m getting older (55) and I see a world where in 10 or 15 years I might have an e-bike. And I can say for sure that if or when that happens, I will never ask a mountain biker who is struggling to make the technical climb to move over because I’m faster (due to the motor on my bike).

I simply cannot believe people are advocating a different position. WTF?
 
So how do we handle downhill yielding?
Our trails were built by mountain bikers for mountain bikers, so if the guy behind me is on a snowboard, there’s no way I’m letting him pass.
 
What about if a turtle comes up on you from behind?
 
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This kerfuffle started over uphill etiquette. So how do we handle downhill yielding? I guarantee I am slower than most everyone else downhill. I've been known to ride up and take the lift down. If I hear someone catching me on a descent, I move over and let 'em go by. I don't want anyone up in my business while I thread my way down the hill.

The only rides with long enough descents for this to even be an issue are where I'm only doing one lap a day. Two at most. Historically, I would simply treat anyone catching me downhill as a faster descender and not think any more about it. But now I'm wondering how many of those folks might be "assisted" getting to the top and doing 3 or 4 or more laps. Am I really obliged to interrupt my one ride down so that the e-bikers are not inconvenienced on their fifth lap of the day?
No, the rider ahead had right-of-way.
 
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Tell us again how fast you really are?


I'm just starting...
Seeding the ignore filter.

Courtesy is extended to the least powerful or the most encumbered. That’s the reasoning behind the three way yield sign. Motorheads think they are mountain bikers, but a new fourth member yielding is needed.
 
This kerfuffle started over uphill etiquette. So how do we handle downhill yielding? I guarantee I am slower than most everyone else downhill. I've been known to ride up and take the lift down. If I hear someone catching me on a descent, I move over and let 'em go by. I don't want anyone up in my business while I thread my way down the hill.

The only rides with long enough descents for this to even be an issue are where I'm only doing one lap a day. Two at most. Historically, I would simply treat anyone catching me downhill as a faster descender and not think any more about it. But now I'm wondering how many of those folks might be "assisted" getting to the top and doing 3 or 4 or more laps. Am I really obliged to interrupt my one ride down so that the e-bikers are not inconvenienced on their fifth lap of the day?

I get down the hill pretty fast, and lately I've been getting more than one lap on the ol ebike. My take is it ain't a race and no one is obligated to pull over for anyone else. If I catch someone on a descent, I'll either:
1. Pull over and let them reel out far enough that it's not longer a problem, or...
2. Hang behind them and wait for a second where I can pass them clean.

You'd think that would be simple, but there are a lot of people that have a problem with option 2. I suspect it's because they perhaps find the trail more challenging and therefore don't agree with what I view as a safe location to pass. Sometimes they get bent out of shape just by the mere fact that I'm right behind them waiting for a good moment to get around.

Note that standing in the middle of the trail gaping over the edge at the next tech section does not get the same treatment. GTFO the trail if you ain't riding it when other riders are approaching.
 
But the situation we're dealing with is an entitled e-biker motoring up a trail while trying to claiming the same "rules of the trail" status as a mountain biker thus attempting a faux-pas pass on a short steep techy single track. It's literally everything you claim to not like while also being a perfect example of why different modes of transportation need different rules to successfully share the trails.
You said you would have been willing and capable of pulling over to let a faster analog rider pass. The fact that you chose to 1: ask what kind of bike he was riding, and 2: block him from passing for "4-5 minutes" because of what he was riding means you and your contempt of people who ride ebikes are the problem here. Regardless of how you perceived his attempt to alert you to his presence, you could have responding in the same way any mature adult would have..."okay, I'll let you buy when I get a chance".

The intensions of the other rider are unknown to us here, but what we can all see not only by your actions, but also by your statements here are that you sir, are a jerk. Question asked, question answered.


.
 
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The reality is that there are different classes of bikes that different speed up and down hill. Some of them are now e classes. That is how the governments of the world classify them and how local clubs and race organizers classify them. They are simply a different class of bike.

I am about to enter an enduro race series. Do I race e bike class or do I race mtb class. There's two race options for mtb. Pedal up all the hills and shuttle up the hills option.
In that race there's 3 hardness levels.

Hardest is he pedal up mtb class, second hardest is the pedal up ebike class and the easiest class is the shuttle up mtb class. Racing the enduro down is similar hardness on all bikes. The E's take a bit more effort on the down because they are heavier. The freshest riders at the end of the race will definitely be the shuttle up mtb guys.

Out of this scenario do you still scoff the e-biker or does the shuttle up mtb guy get more scorn?

Now back to differential speeds between classes a dh bike pedalling is bt far the slowest up a hill and the differential speed between xc and dh uphill is far far more than xc and E. If you wanted to make and arguement for effort expended to get up a hill an xc bike takes way less effort than an enduro bike should I mock you for cheating for taking an easy to pedal bike up a hill.

The mtb world is filled with more layers of grey than the black and white that you propose.
This argument and the one proceeding it are perfect examples of the false equivocating that the e-bike industry/advocates used to get e-bikes into urban bike lanes originally and eventually onto our trails...and now claiming they should also go by the same rules of the trails as normal bikes. There is nothing similar about the uphill performance of any class of human powered bike versus an e-bike on turbo mode throwing down 1000watts just because the cranks are being rotated by a persons feet. A dh bike and a XC bike both roll at around 3mph at 150 watts of leg power up a steep grade, and e-bike on turbo is getting less human power while traveling 18mph up the same hill. To pretend those are not drastically different things that require differences in how they are handled is disingenuous.
 
Discussion starter · #258 ·
You said you would have been willing and capable of pulling over to let a faster analog rider pass. The fact that you chose to 1: ask what kind of bike he was riding, and 2: block him from passing for "4-5 minutes" because of what he was riding means you and your contempt of people who ride ebikes are the problem here. Regardless of how you perceived his attempt to alert you to his presence, you could have responding in the same way any mature adult would have..."okay, I'll let you buy when I get a chance".

The intensions of the other rider are unknown to us here, but what we can all see not only by your actions, but also by your statements here are that you sir, are a jerk. Question asked, question answered.


.
I think you're confusing who is OP. I guess that's kind of hilarious since you're calling both of us jerks, yet you can't tell who is who.

Anyhow, to clarify your misinterpretation- I didn't choose to block him. I choose not to stop. That's a very different thing. I posted a video of the trail for everyone to get some perspective on the trail (again, video not me, not mine, you can look up other videos if you choose).
 
A dh bike and a XC bike both roll at around 3mph at 150 watts of leg power up a steep grade, and e-bike on turbo is getting less human power while traveling 18mph up the same hill.
I'll Venmo 50 bucks to the first person that can provide evidence of this ever happening in the wild.
 
I’m getting older (55) and I see a world where in 10 or 15 years I might have an e-bike. And I can say for sure that if or when that happens, I will never ask a mountain biker who is struggling to make the technical climb to move over because I’m faster (due to the motor on my bike).

I simply cannot believe people are advocating a different position. WTF?
I’m sort of in the same position as you (I’m 63, no e-bike). I don’t believe anyone here has advocated what you imply. I think people agree that they wouldn’t demand to pass when someone is cleaning a technical section. But the trail is four miles long and pretty clearly has opportunities to help someone pass.
 
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