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Quickie: Compound vs Tread

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Deartist7

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone!

After a couple years of navigating through these forums, I have noticed a pattern when someone is asking for help to choose a tire for a given type of terrain.
Long story short, I have noticed that most of the time, a not-too-soft, dual, or single compound tire with a PROPER tread pattern is recommended for dry conditions, specially when it's really loose, whereas for wet conditions and anything wet root/rock related, there's a big emphasis on softer compound tires with larger contact areas.

So I decided to ask what are your actual opinions about this specific matter.

I'm personally debating whether to get a dual compound or 3C High Roller II 2.4 for the front of my bike. I think the dual is only available in 2.3 though, so there is that. I'm coming from an Ardent 2.4 and got to know it's limits fairly well, but now I want to step up my riding, and the first step for me is switching to something grippier for our loose-dry sandy/rocky conditions.
It makes sense to me that tread pattern is more important for loose conditions, but am I missing something by not going for the 3C? Specially on the harder packed terrain?
I know it will be better on wet conditions, but can't see the point when it rarely rains here and It will wear out faster.
 
#3 ·
honestly i'd go with the DHR II or DHF over the HR II (assuming you want to stick with maxxis). regardless of compound the HR II just doesn't hook up as well as the other tires and rolls significantly slower. you mention loose-dry sandy/rocky conditions but how much of your terrain is larger rock surfaces that aren't loose? that's where a softer compound will be better than the dual compound even if if things aren't wet. if you truly ride in loose over hard rocky stuff without large solid surfaces i'd just go with the dual compound - it will last longer, cost you less money and have an almost imperceptible difference in performance.
 
#4 ·
3C is a popular front option for many riders in all sorts of conditions.
On the 3C HR2, if you are cornering hard at speed repeatedly on your usual rides, you'll notice that the sideknobs go soft and have less support long before the tread is worn out.
I can notice a cornering grip difference between Maxxis 3c and Dual compounds on hardpack and loose over hardpack.
In deep dirt and really loose soil, the difference is hardly noticeable.
For overall tire life and sideknob life/performance, Dual is a good option in loose,rocky,dry conditions in my experience.
Depending on PSI, trail conditions and riding style, you may find that 3C feels like it rolls a little slower than Dual.
For trail riding I like 3C in the front and dual compound in the rear.
For bikepark season I tend to go dual front and rear just so I'm not burning through tires as quickly.
Tire life with 3C will largely depend on how often you are riding and how hard you are hitting corners.
 
#5 ·
I think one of the factors folks don’t take into consideration enough is temperature.

Temperature has a big effect on rubber and I factor this into the compounds I choose.

Worth noting in simple terms wet conditions are mostly colder (on tyres temperatures) than dry conditions.

In colder (and wet?) temperatures rubber goes harder so a softer compound can correct for this.

In warm conditions rubber softens. In extreme conditions (I lived in the Middle East for 6 years) I’ve found warm tyres to suffer cuts much more easily because the rubber softens up. Dry conditions often mean rockier and sharper also increasing the chance of damage.

I’ve never had a problem with harder rubber compounds gripping in warm dry conditions. Warmer rubber is grippier anyway. Soft compounds will wear very quickly, tyre knobs will bend too easily and soft tyre casings are more prone to damage.


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Discussion starter · #6 ·
I'm going into a bit of a long term tire testing, and the idea is to try everything. I can find the HRII cheaper and I want tro try it before the Minion anyway, so I'm going for that one.

Our terrain is mainly loose dirt, gravel and so on, only a few rare spots are truly hardpack and most rocky surfaces are actually rock garden where it's more about taking a good line over the chunk than worrying about gripping it.

I guess "literally" ( the user ) puts it simple. If there's hardly a noticeable difference for a mere mortal like me, in truly loose stuff I'm simply better going with the dual.
However I just noticed that the 2.3 is the one available on DC, so I might end up just going for the 2.4 and 3C anyway to get the bigger knobs.
And or weather ranges from warm to really hot so I guess it's just regular rubber behavior.

Anyway, thanks for the replies!
 
#7 ·
Tread pattern first, then casing type (lightweight, reinforced, or DH casing), then tread compound, in that order.

If you get the tread pattern wrong, no amount of magic rubber compound will make the tire work properly. Casing type is next since you want a tire that stands up to your planned usage. Go too light on the casing and you'll rip sidewalls, puncture, and put large wobbles into the casing all over the place. You want the right balance of weight & durability. Once the above is sorted out, choose the tread compound based on how wet or dry your trails are along with how much rolling resistance you're ok with and how long you want the tires to last.
 
Discussion starter · #8 · (Edited)
aerius said:
Tread pattern first, then casing type (lightweight, reinforced, or DH casing), then tread compound, in that order.

If you get the tread pattern wrong, no amount of magic rubber compound will make the tire work properly. Casing type is next since you want a tire that stands up to your planned usage. Go too light on the casing and you'll rip sidewalls, puncture, and put large wobbles into the casing all over the place. You want the right balance of weight & durability. Once the above is sorted out, choose the tread compound based on how wet or dry your trails are along with how much rolling resistance you're ok with and how long you want the tires to last.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a great way to put it down. Thanks!
 
#9 ·
Similar debate here, but more like higher volume vs. more aggressive tread, or combination thereof, with relatively similar compounds.
I've been experimenting with a handful of tires for awhile in anticipation of choosing a carbon wheelset. Wide variety of trail surfaces, and I'm not finding internet wisdom means much, because people's trails and ideas of what works best vary quite a bit. Definitely want a bigger tire up front, but so far I've been as happy with a 2.25" Nobby Nic on a i21 rim as the 2.35" version and XR3 or XR4 Team Issues on i26 for the rear. Rolls better than any of them except maybe the XR3, grips just as good as the bigger NN and XR4 in the loose stuff(meaning they're all fine for my use, but why roll a 40-100g heavier rim and up to 120g heavier tire if it doesn't work better for me?). Frankly I'm not even finding it all that lacking on smooth rocks and wet roots, either, since the ones big enough to matter tend to be in brief patches, and are generally in the form of obstacles that depend more on momentum than traction to clear. Next step is to try that same tire on the wider rim, and see what difference that makes.
Forums are great for getting suggestions, but I think you're doing the right thing by trying different tires for yourself. While no expert on anything mtb-related, I'll take my own firsthand experience with what works for my riding, on my bike and my favorite trails over what anyone anywhere else says is "better".
 
#10 ·
aerius said:
Tread pattern first, then casing type (lightweight, reinforced, or DH casing), then tread compound, in that order.
Click to expand...
Completely agree with this. Also agree with folks that say the HR2 is not an ideal front. It's spec'ed as a front on many complete bikes and it's a popular design, but it's not the safest bet fro the front wheel. There's huge open space between the sideknobs and every other set of centre knobs and mid-lean into a corner this spot can get drifty and you into trouble. It's a nice trait to have on the rear as it can help you muscle the tail round corners, but in the front I'd rather have the piece of mind of a DHF or similar tyre offers
 
#11 ·
I love HR2’s. Do everything tyre, great front and back. Fit and forget. Used by top athletes, with more talent than I can comprehend,the world over.

Having said that I do like a Minion SS (KOM Part Tyre) out back for all but the wettest of conditions


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
justwan naride said:
Completely agree with this. Also agree with folks that say the HR2 is not an ideal front. It's spec'ed as a front on many complete bikes and it's a popular design, but it's not the safest bet fro the front wheel. There's huge open space between the sideknobs and every other set of centre knobs and mid-lean into a corner this spot can get drifty and you into trouble. It's a nice trait to have on the rear as it can help you muscle the tail round corners, but in the front I'd rather have the piece of mind of a DHF or similar tyre offers
Click to expand...
This the kind of opinion I read the most about the HR2. However, occasionally I read opinions about the tire's ACTUAL performance like braking, cornering once it's leaned properly, etc. Long story short, I came to the conclusion that due to the open distribution of the knobs and their height, this is a great tire for very loose conditions (no as good as a Shorty I guess, but that one could be overkill for an all rounder) and even mud.
I do realize that there might be better tires out there that perform almost as well as the HR2 on loose conditions without many of the problems it gives, but I still want to try it out since it's a very popular tire and I really want to have a taste of everything possible.
And coming from an Ardent 2.4, trust me, I know what that dead-zone feels like. It took me down a few times, but I'm very aware of it by now and after a few tumbles I learned how much to lean it, so I'm not worried about that aspect on the HR2.
 
#13 ·
If I were you, 2.4 3C - all day up front.

Tires wear a lot better up front, I've found.

I ride all sorts of conditions, including some real rocky stuff.

PS - which of the 3C's is the HRII gonna be?

Maxxspeed, Maxxterra or Maxxgrip??

NB, been looking for a 3C 29x2.4 HRII 3C myself w/o any luck.
My trails get sloppy in the Winter (just around the corner) & I'm looking for something that doesn't pack up in the mud.
I use to own a 27.5x2.3 HRII a while back, twas the best wet trail tire I've used. Proviso = also one of the slowest rolling tires, on the flats/climbs (ran out back).

'Born to ride!'
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
targnik said:
If I were you, 2.4 3C - all day up front.

Tires wear a lot better up front, I've found.

I ride all sorts of conditions, including some real rocky stuff.

PS - which of the 3C's is the HRII gonna be?

Maxxspeed, Maxxterra or Maxxgrip??

NB, been looking for a 3C 29x2.4 HRII 3C myself w/o any luck.
My trails get sloppy in the Winter (just around the corner) & I'm looking for something that doesn't pack up in the mud.
I use to own a 27.5x2.3 HRII a while back, twas the best wet trail tire I've used. Proviso = also one of the slowest rolling tires, on the flats/climbs (ran out back).

'Born to ride!'
Click to expand...
According to the Maxxis site, there's only MaxxTerra versions for the trail version, and MaxxGrip or SuperTacky for the DH versions.

And also according to that site, there are no 2.4 29er versions, aside for a couple 2.50 WT on EXO and DD casings.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
I think I'll go for a 2.4 then. 3C also, MaxxTerra because that's all that's available
And casing...that's a different question.

I had this situation with the Ardent 2.4 (EXO casing) that one day, no matter how well I seated the beads and how hard I pumped it up (tubes btw), the casing had a bit of a wobble. And it stayed that way ever since.

I always abused these tires a lot, and on a hardtail it's reasonable to think they have to put up with some extra stress. What I'm wondering is if it's really possible to damage an EXO casing on a rock garden going full speed, or on a slightly sideways bad landed jump, or just because of all of that done repeteadly over a year.

If there's a possibility, I might just go for the DH version already since I'm planning to abuse the bike even more, and I don't want to deal with warped casings.

That being said, I still feel it's unlikely since I'm pretty light and while I ride aggressively, I haven't damaged a lot on the bike aside from a slightly bent rear wheel. If the amount of damaged parts on an entry level trail hardtail can translate to how abusive I am, then I might not be as hard on parts are I think.
In that case, my Ardent might come from a bad batch and an EXO HR2 will be just fine, and I'd like that since I'm not sure if I'm willing to push a +1200 gram DH tire up our local trails, even If I'm just training.

Btw, the Ardent 2.4 will go on the rear regardless of my choice.
 
#17 ·
There was a velo news story about Lance Armstrong's belgian mechanic storing his tires for a year in a basement to let them harden up so they would flat less. They interviewed a tire maker who said that it used to work but it didn't do anything for newer rubber compounds.

With DH rubber, anything could be going on, so you may be right. You aren't storing them in the heat or sun, are you? Because that will do it for sure.
 
#18 ·
Gilarider said:
There was a velo news story about Lance Armstrong's belgian mechanic storing his tires for a year in a basement to let them harden up so they would flat less. They interviewed a tire maker who said that it used to work but it didn't do anything for newer rubber compounds.

With DH rubber, anything could be going on, so you may be right. You aren't storing them in the heat or sun, are you? Because that will do it for sure.
Click to expand...
That's not very efficient. You can just rub tires with vinegar to achieve the same thing in a few minutes.
 
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