A fine example of trail rage…
BigOgre
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Self-defense is a spectrum.
First, you de-escalate and escape.
Second, you use less-lethal options to create time/distance, escape to a safe place, and call the police.
If either of those fail or there's no time to implement them, that's when lethal force is called for.
My behavior would be quite different depending on whether my daughter was with me.
The one thing I teach my children is that I walk away because not doing so increases the risk I'll have to shoot someone, and that's not something I want to do.
"Dead" is still largely an abstract idea for them -- for most kids -- and will remain so through at least their teen years. If you take a life, you have to live with it.
Lethal force in a civilian context isn't about winning. It's about making the choice you can live with more.
So when my daughter asks, "Daddy, why did you walk away?" I try to make her understand that.
First, you de-escalate and escape.
Second, you use less-lethal options to create time/distance, escape to a safe place, and call the police.
If either of those fail or there's no time to implement them, that's when lethal force is called for.
My behavior would be quite different depending on whether my daughter was with me.
The one thing I teach my children is that I walk away because not doing so increases the risk I'll have to shoot someone, and that's not something I want to do.
"Dead" is still largely an abstract idea for them -- for most kids -- and will remain so through at least their teen years. If you take a life, you have to live with it.
Lethal force in a civilian context isn't about winning. It's about making the choice you can live with more.
So when my daughter asks, "Daddy, why did you walk away?" I try to make her understand that.
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96 Posts
I took a course called "Breaking The Chain Of Violence" once on how to deal with upset or unhinged individuals. Used its content several times and people in the world need that kind of thing these days. It essentially shows how to descalate rather than escalate situations like this.
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This guy BikeDog suggests killing someone is better than de-escalation. Who is more dangerous, the guy pushing around kids or someone packing a gun and willing to use it? BikeDog is more dangerous. He is deranged and ought to be shown the door of MTBR.
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The older I get, the more I realize it's often more "badass" to walk away from a difficult situation.
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I disagree. I don't think he worded himself right, but I also don't think he's unhinged.
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No need. The specifics of the incident are secondary to what happens afterwards. The difference between then and now is that when we were children there wasn’t social media where literally tens of thousands of adults would criticize our actions and call us pussies for not having acted like “real men” (despite not actually being men yet), telling us that we failed and did the wrong thing under pressure because we didn’t fight back and maybe even kill our attacker like they supposedly would have. We didn’t have the sharp rebukes of armchair quarterbacks recorded for eternity on the internet.
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Possibly. I defended myself after being sucker punched at that age, got a ticket, and my dad was furious. He relented when he heard the entire story. If my kid talked smack to a mentally ill person without knowing the guys fighting skills, without knowing if he was armed, and the bike I bought was trashed because he didn’t assess the situation properly, I would be annoyed. If he was twenty two I would be angry. Life isn’t suburbia, tic tok, and video games. Life gets you killed. But, only if I always practiced what I preach.
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Dude, it was too hot out for a shirt, okay?
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Was it established that they were talking smack? I haven't seen what led to the encounter.
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I need this. I know about breaking the OODA loop, but that doesn't always apply with folks who aren't experiencing the same world as the rest of us.
Pretty sure I would have pooped my pants.
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These courses are great, but I think it can give people a false sense of reality in some cases. There are always going to be incidents where deescalation doesn't work or, there is no opportunity for it. I spent 28 years as a police officer and there are times, despite your best efforts, it's going to be a fail. When deescalation fails and lethal force is needed then we get the "why didn't the police shoot the knife out of his hand" BS. Honestly, I am so glad I am retired now as our society is full of lot of ignorant people that are dictating policy now. It's dangerous for everyone. Would rather ride my bike
To be fair, the only guy who made a reference to killing him or pulling a gun also stated that his sister is mentally ill because she has a different political ideology than he does.
The only thought in my mind was "there are 3 of them and 1 of him, WTF is this guy on to continually threaten them?"
Dude defo looked wacked on something.
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TLDR, but wow. Mental illness for certain. Schizophrenia or manic (bi-polar) episode.
Sad part is, the crazy dude will end up dead if he doesn't seek help. He'll act out on the wrong person. I know several riders/hikers who carry firearms when they ride/hike regardless of State/Federal park laws.
Very sad. I hope mr. crazy gets help.
Sad part is, the crazy dude will end up dead if he doesn't seek help. He'll act out on the wrong person. I know several riders/hikers who carry firearms when they ride/hike regardless of State/Federal park laws.
Very sad. I hope mr. crazy gets help.
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Am I the only one whose mind instantly whispered, "Picard?"
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Between MTBR, Reddit, and Pinkbike there have been numerous people who claim that the right choice would've been to kill the man.
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