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Discussion starter · #901 ·
Have you actually ridden on properly prepped onyx hubs? It's no light undertaking, don't get me wrong. Hours of work.

Read some previous posts....when they are dialed it's like magic. Silent. Near zero drag. Minutes of spin time. Instant engagement.

I sound like a shill but there's nothing else I'm aware of like it.
Hours?

I prep a few sets of Onyx to lace with Berd's every week. Prepping the hubs takes ~10 minutes. Lacing is maybe 30 minutes a wheel.
 
Discussion starter · #902 ·
Bear in mind that an Onyx Vesper suffers from the same problem as Chris King: weight. It's a heavy hub. If you're not concerned with weight and are one of those concerned with engagement points, go ahead, but the rear hub is literally 200+ grams heavier than a DT Swiss 240, not to speak of the 180 or Extralite hubs. Even the Berd Talon is a lighter option, with the same ease of build.
"Suffers" is an interesting word.

"Problem" is even interestinger.

Hubs that are prone to failure, or that scream at me when coasting? I won't spend my own money to be tortured by them. Won't accept them for free, either.

And thus the only "problem" I have is saving my pennies to buy Onyx when I need new hubs. Which is what I did all winter, so that I could afford a set of these, in hook-flange, for an upcoming 32" FS project.

Image


I get that some people like to obsess about a few grams here or there. I used to do it. I'm older now. Wiser. I understand that sometimes a few grams are warranted as cheap insurance, and utterly unnoticeable when moving down (or up) the trail.
 
Bear in mind that an Onyx Vesper suffers from the same problem as Chris King: weight. It's a heavy hub. If you're not concerned with weight and are one of those concerned with engagement points, go ahead, but the rear hub is literally 200+ grams heavier than a DT Swiss 240, not to speak of the 180 or Extralite hubs. Even the Berd Talon is a lighter option, with the same ease of build.
The weight difference to some of the lighter hubs is real. Is it meaningful? In my books not one bit. Ride characteristics take precedence over slight weight increase every day of the week. If your goal for some reason is to build the lightest bike possible, choose the hubs accordingly.

Hours?

I prep a few sets of Onyx to lace with Berd's every week. Prepping the hubs takes ~10 minutes. Lacing is maybe 30 minutes a wheel.
That's some seriously fast action! Do you employ the new reaming and insert installation procedure? Or chamfer the spoke holes?

Anyways, for a first-timer the process will take a good chunk of time in most cases.
 
Ahh.. a picture tells a thousand words. Sparkly ;) Got it.

If you can find a more reliable hub that DT Swiss, By all means. I doubt it, and yet they're lighter than most anything out there too. The model below doesn't have the Berd-specific flanges, at least get those, otherwise I see only a sparkliness advantage ;) Kate would be proud.

"Suffers" is an interesting word.

"Problem" is even interestinger.

Hubs that are prone to failure, or that scream at me when coasting? I won't spend my own money to be tortured by them. Won't accept them for free, either.

And thus the only "problem" I have is saving my pennies to buy Onyx when I need new hubs. Which is what I did all winter, so that I could afford a set of these, in hook-flange, for an upcoming 32" FS project.

View attachment 2150267

I get that some people like to obsess about a few grams here or there. I used to do it. I'm older now. Wiser. I understand that sometimes a few grams are warranted as cheap insurance, and utterly unnoticeable when moving down (or up) the trail.
 
Ahh.. a picture tells a thousand words. Sparkly ;) Got it.

If you can find a more reliable hub that DT Swiss, By all means. I doubt it, and yet they're lighter than most anything out there too. The model below doesn't have the Berd-specific flanges, at least get those, otherwise I see only a sparkliness advantage ;) Kate would be proud.
Those ones are out there as well.

Image


A wide selection of colors - with limited runs in between - is a nice feature for sure. However, the ride characteristics are what matter in my book. And with Berd spokes, the ease of lacing and building with Hook Flange hubs is truly a major benefit.
 
For which Berd Talon hubs are lighter, less expensive, and equally durable, DT Swiss moreso except price and build effort. But sparkle on! How’s Kate doing, mid season check in ;)



Those ones are out there as well.

View attachment 2150450

A wide selection of colors - with limited runs in between - is a nice feature for sure. However, the ride characteristics are what matter in my book. And with Berd spokes, the ease of lacing and building with Hook Flange hubs is truly a major benefit.
 

Attachments

Discussion starter · #909 ·
The weight difference to some of the lighter hubs is real. Is it meaningful? In my books not one bit. Ride characteristics take precedence over slight weight increase every day of the week. If your goal for some reason is to build the lightest bike possible, choose the hubs accordingly.



That's some seriously fast action! Do you employ the new reaming and insert installation procedure? Or chamfer the spoke holes?

Anyways, for a first-timer the process will take a good chunk of time in most cases.
Chamfer.
 
What about straight pull hubs for Berd? If I understand it correctly there is no need to chamfer them, just press in the inserts. Isn't it the quickest build option?

My 1st party wheel builder (me) has built 1,5 wheelsets with Berd. I spent a lot of time building them. They have been flawless for 2,5 seasons. I checked them this winter but there was no need to retension them.
 
Discussion starter · #912 ·
What a out straight pull hubs for Berd? If I understand it correctly there is no need to chamfer them, just press in the inserts. Isn't it the quickest build

OMG no. Takes substantially longer than chamfering and lacing a j-bend set up. I did one straight pull set and won’t do another.
 
Harlen Meyer of HiE made siamese spokes. That is the spoke was double length and folded at the spoke hole. This placed more stress on the spoke hole but HiE made their own hubs. You can get rid of the knot. You will still need dome device to prevent the spoke from moving through the spoke hole which will create a stress riser but less than the stress riser than a know. Fishing line makers obsess over knot strength. http://pardo.net/bike/pic/mobi/d.hi-e.siamese-spokes/index.html
 
"Suffers" is an interesting word.

"Problem" is even interestinger.

Hubs that are prone to failure, or that scream at me when coasting? I won't spend my own money to be tortured by them. Won't accept them for free, either.

And thus the only "problem" I have is saving my pennies to buy Onyx when I need new hubs. Which is what I did all winter, so that I could afford a set of these, in hook-flange, for an upcoming 32" FS project.

View attachment 2150267

I get that some people like to obsess about a few grams here or there. I used to do it. I'm older now. Wiser. I understand that sometimes a few grams are warranted as cheap insurance, and utterly unnoticeable when moving down (or up) the trail.
If you aren't concerned about weight, then why use Berd spokes? Honest question, late to this thread.
 
If you're racing, weight matters, especially at the wheel. Sub-1000g wheels, oh yeah it definitely does make a difference.

If you're not racing, it doesn't really, a 1500-1800g wheelset is gonna be just fine. The ride quality difference with Berd spokes is genuine, but if we're being honest, let's be honest: those guys are buying Onyx hubs because they're sparkly, lol...

In my opinion with the DT Swiss 350, 240, and 180s, there is really no reason for other hub makers to exist. They are the most durable, best value, and the lightest options available. Pick one of these three and you can't go wrong.

 
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