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The fine line between "maintenance" and making a trail less difficult...?

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#22 ·
67King said:
We do not have a problem with vigilantes trying to soften the trails. We have the opposite problem, guys cutting paths where they aren't intended to try to make more downhills in areas that are mostly singletrack.
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I’m in your neck of the woods and I’ve seen several instances where people dumbed down the trails. The masses were irate and wanted blood. But your second sentence holds true and again, the masses want blood for unapproved trails.
 
#23 ·
cookieMonster said:
I’ve said this before, but I believe loose, fist-sized or bigger rocks that weren’t there when the trail was finished warrant moving. These degrade the experience, and make the trail unpredictable and unsafe regardless of one’s skill level.
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Completely agree.
cookieMonster said:
Fixed rocks and roots — hell no, don’t touch them.
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Mostly agree. I've removed a couple embedded rocks, but ONLY because they'd splintered into near razor sharp tire killers (stupid flint/chert/slate/whatever it is). This is super rare though and I do have permission to do discretionary trail work.
 
#24 ·
People lose their minds over this whole idea of "sanitizing". It's just a bunch of chest thumping ego-driven BS, usually by over-biked bros (95% of them anyhow) who haven't been around long enough to know what the trail used to be like before it was trashed by erosion, etc.

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#26 ·
The trail should be reinstated to what the builder originally intended for that track.

I personally what that junkies track i can find. In which case the only maintenance is to remove obstructions from the trail like downed trees and if the track gets beyond rideable. Tweak it back to barely rideable.
 
#27 ·
man I wish the world was black and white and it was as easy as "ask the builder" or "consult the management organization". If that's a possibility for the trails in question, then yeah, work with them to coordinate volunteer efforts and get guidance. But that's just not realistic everywhere.

Most of my local trails were built by volunteers and all are maintained by loose network of dedicated individuals who like to ride them. There is no management group to turn to and leaving them alone isn't an option - the jungle is trying to take over every day and the entire place is slowly sliding into the ocean. Maintenance always involves cutting vegetation, sometimes requires moving rocks, and even gasp occasionally cutting roots. We manage to make it work. (I understand cutting roots is VERY bad practice in many places - most of our trees are actually invasive and grow like crazy)

Ironically, in many cases leaving small rocks and roots (that weren't originally "features" but emerge after weathering) makes things worse, not better. It doesn't preserve the character or challenge. People are just tempted to go around, resulting in braiding, b-lines, and more erosion. There is no such thing a keeping a trail the same.

that said, an experienced trail builder/maintainer doing maintenance work is different than a well-intentioned (or not) noob hacking and digging. Hand them a rake!
 
#28 ·
noapathy said:
Mostly agree. I've removed a couple embedded rocks, but ONLY because they'd splintered into near razor sharp tire killers (stupid flint/chert/slate/whatever it is). This is super rare though and I do have permission to do discretionary trail work.
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I agree in limited circumstances. Your example of a “tire shredder” is a good case for relocating a rock, unless there is clearly room on the trail to avoid it.

There are a couple rocks I’d like to remove on the trail I mentioned earlier— but I most likely won’t. There are a few spots where the trail has become trenched out from rider erosion and rain. In this section, beetle kill brought down a lot of the trees that were standing at the time it was built, and erosion definitely increased because of that.

What you used to be able to ride over (rocks) are now at pedal/shin level and some of them are sharp. You’re kind of forced down into the trench, and it’s tricky to get through without striking those rocks. In my opinion, this section of trail could be improved by removing the worst of these rocks, or somehow fill the trench back in so you’re back to riding next to or over those rocks. I think that would be a challenging fix that wouldn’t last. I may ask the builder about doing that. It’s an unsanctioned trail, so technically he can’t really dictate what happens, but — I’m gonna leave it unless he gives me the green light. He doesn’t believe in any maintenance other than clearing down trees. But times have changed, and the instagram crowd has found the trail — what worked 15 years ago no longer works.
 
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#29 ·
plummet said:
The trail should be reinstated to what the builder originally intended for that track.
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Trails evolve. The people who use them will burn in the preferred lines. "Builders" aren't clergy, they're contractors roughing out a path in the dirt. If people find a particular arc through a corner rides better, flows better, so be it. That said, when a blue trail becomes a black, or a black becomes a blue, then it's probably time to undo whatever's been done.

All the time I hear the bros complaining about people "dumbing down their trails", but nobody ever complains about harder B lines/stunts these guys hack into the sides of easy trails. The issue isn't actually about honoring the builder's intent, it's about them, and what they want. The fact that they're okay with "sharpening up?" trails, but not "dumbing down" tells us all we need to know.

While an unpopular opinion, I have no problem with B lines - even user created, that offer a more or less challenging alternative to accommodate more riders.


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#30 ·
I love it when the professional sanitizers waste their time doing trail destruction (maintenance) in AZ, digging out embedded rocks, loosening soil, to reveal more rocks. Also the comically stupid baby drainage cuts...as if the giant wash right next to them wasn't a fvcking clue!
 
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