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Shimano m9200 XTR

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#61 ·
uphiller said:
I hear this persistent claim that Shimano releases stuff only when it works perfectly, and can't agree. I remember how their Mega Nine stuff always hesitated to shift into the 11t cog, how Servo Wave brakes had a wandering bite point for around fifteen years (and might still), how their 11sp 105 hydraulic brake levers pull almost all the way to the handlebar even after a full bleed, and how for years they put their head in the sand about their Ultegra and Dura Ace cranksets coming unbonded before finally deciding to recall them.
SRAM has had its share of facepalms, too... The bike drivetrain biz is practically a duopoly, and duopolies are abusive.
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Well, it wasn't even a duopoly really until 1x. Yeah, SRAM technically had "groupsets" since like 1999, but no one was stupid enough to spec them on bikes, they simply sucked in those days.

There were also shimano freehubs that blew up about 1x a year, you had a to buy a new one. You even used to be able to grease them for a while, then they stopped making this possible. Also the brake-lever shifters, I used those for a while and the "backwards" derailleur was also at that same time...both of those products crashed and burned. 3
 
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#62 ·
Ah yes, I remember the days of buying XTR hubs because they were the only freehubs that lasted. Apparently, when you stuff the ratchet mechanism inside the freehub combined with sub par materials because you're an old dog stuck in its ways to cup and cone bearings, it breaks.

Then research came out proving that cup and cone bearings were neither lower drag nor provided any support advantage for side loads compared to cartridge bearings.

Then they butterfingered "Scylence". Which is good, because that's a retarded name.

Now the bumblejocks at Shimano use cartridge bearings like everyone else figured out twenty years ago.

But yeah man, they're an engineering base company.
 
#65 ·
uphiller said:
I hear this persistent claim that Shimano releases stuff only when it works perfectly, and can't agree. I remember how their Mega Nine stuff always hesitated to shift into the 11t cog, how Servo Wave brakes had a wandering bite point for around fifteen years (and might still), how their 11sp 105 hydraulic brake levers pull almost all the way to the handlebar even after a full bleed, and how for years they put their head in the sand about their Ultegra and Dura Ace cranksets coming unbonded before finally deciding to recall them.
SRAM has had its share of facepalms, too... The bike drivetrain biz is practically a duopoly, and duopolies are abusive.
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Shimano makes a lot of parts, so I don't think it's realistic to expect every one of them to be perfect. The crank recall was a bad one that was a safety issue, but it also landed at the height of the COVID parts crunch when orders for new parts were pouring in and backed up for miles. Those cranks were also spec'd on a massive number of bikes compared to many carbon cranks that probably have much higher failure rates, at least with the pedal inserts de-bonding under normal use.

I admit to have a slight bias towards Shimano because I like Japanese products, I've always used it on my bikes, and have had a lot of Shimano that seemed indestructible. I also appreciate that their low end parts generally work very well, particularly the CUES parts currently if you just want to put something on your bike that works, and last.

Lastly, about the duopoly, hard to say why Microshift didn't get a little more traction since they also make good products, or some of the more boutique stuff like TRP's attempt at drivetrains. Chinese manufacturers have also come a long way quick, but they just release products as quickly as they can, finished or unfinished, often with serious problems that get addressed in future revisions which should have been sorted in proper QA before release. No replacement parts pipeline either, so it's just more landfill waste when anything breaks.
 
#66 ·
uphiller said:
I hear this persistent claim that Shimano releases stuff only when it works perfectly, and can't agree. I remember how their Mega Nine stuff always hesitated to shift into the 11t cog, how Servo Wave brakes had a wandering bite point for around fifteen years (and might still), how their 11sp 105 hydraulic brake levers pull almost all the way to the handlebar even after a full bleed, and how for years they put their head in the sand about their Ultegra and Dura Ace cranksets coming unbonded before finally deciding to recall them.
SRAM has had its share of facepalms, too... The bike drivetrain biz is practically a duopoly, and duopolies are abusive.
Click to expand...
I can only go by my own experience in working on my own bikes over 30 years and having a little shop experience while in college. For the most part I'd give the drivetrain industry fairly high marks for overall reliability. I'm sure I passed over 100k miles of road riding and probably a good 30k of mountain bike riding...and the number of failures have been so minimal for me... especially given the decades of recreational fun they provided. Bikes to me are such reliable machines in comparison to many other things we use. I just put on a XTR wireless upgrade kit on my mountain bike and am looking forward to using it even though I'm not a gadget person. It addressed probably the only critique I had of 12 speed shifting...that the shifters can feel a little heavy actioned on upshifting. And if you look at something like Shimano SLX or Deore mechanical, it is so high quality at such a reasonable price...hard to fault SRAM or Shimano on the basics.
 
#67 ·
foggnm said:
It addressed probably the only critique I had of 12 speed shifting...that the shifters can feel a little heavy actioned on upshifting.
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They they design in that problem so they could later design it out? That's not a problem with 12 speed, that's a problem with shimano XT and XTR.

SRAM upshifts (mechanical) are far lighter and don't irritate my thumb like Shimano XT and XTR.
 
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#68 ·
May be a daft question, but does the new XTR Di2 have a cage lock or maintenance mode to help remove and put back the rear wheel? If it does, I can't find it. It's a bit of a pain without being able to losen a clutch or fix it in a cage lock. Maybe it is there and I haven't found it yet......?
 
#70 ·
That simple lock feature is a godsend for removing/installing wheels studded tires. Otherwise the derailleur forces the wheel up against the seat-tube/yoke when you are removing the tire and scratches the frame every time.
 
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#74 ·
Jayem said:
That simple lock feature is a godsend for removing/installing wheels studded tires. Otherwise the derailleur forces the wheel up against the seat-tube/yoke when you are removing the tire and scratches the frame every time.
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The cage lock makes life a bit easier, but still, no need to make life more difficult than it is.
Free tip: flip your bike upside down, from behind the rear wheel, thumb on the end of the cage, push forward, grab with rest of fingers from the derailleur body and pull back. Now you can freely lift the rear wheel out without scratching seatstay or other parts...

Image
 
#75 ·
And nasty grease on your fingers.
 
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#78 ·
Got it installed, looks and shifts great, except for the twelfth gear (51 tooth). Iv’e tried a bunch of times to change it to 12 speed in the app, it accepts the change but then reverts right back to 11 speed🤷. Guess I’ll keep messing around with it, I never use the top cog anyway, might just get an 11 speed cassette.
 
#80 ·
Dry Pivots said:
Got it installed, looks and shifts great, except for the twelfth gear (51 tooth). Iv’e tried a bunch of times to change it to 12 speed in the app, it accepts the change but then reverts right back to 11 speed🤷. Guess I’ll keep messing around with it, I never use the top cog anyway, might just get an 11 speed cassette.
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Is there a way to revert settings back to factory and start over?
 
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