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bfdnelson

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I've been training with a coach for the past 4 1/2 years, and this year we increased my training workload by ~15% (a reasonable increase). Overall, my performance has been better (as expected) but I haven't FELT as strong nor as good during the efforts. It feels like I can only train for 2-3 weeks at a time instead of my normal 3-4 weeks, and recovery feels like it takes longer. Long story short, I've done a lot of reading and I think diet, particularly low meat protein intake, is the root of the issue. I'm not a vegetarian, but my current diet is predominantly vegetables, grains, and low fat dairy with a small serving of turkey at lunch (2-3oz) and a serving of meat at dinner (6oz).

The studies that I've read show that I should be eating 16-18.5 oz of meat per day (based on my weight, 155lb), comprising >50% of my caloric intake. That's a lot of meat!

How the heck do you do this with good, lean meats without breaking the bank? I'm thinking I'd have to have a ton of skinless chicken in all 3 meals each day. Have any of you tried to intake this amount of protein per day? If so, how did you do it?
 
#2 ·
Eat legumes. Lentils and beans with complementary starches.
Complete proteins from plants are complete proteins.
They are practically free compared the highly prepared chicken bits in an bag.
Eat meat for the taste.

Or buy an entire chicken. Cook it. Eat all of it (roasted, leftovers, marrow-pate’ toast, soup, chicken stock for pasta water, etc.).
Protein for a week!
 
#3 ·
Lean meat isn't good for you. You probably need more animal fats too.

On the cheap?
Eggs
Cheese
Breakfast sausage
Bratwurst
Chicken legs/thighs
Cottage cheese
Ground beef
Pork chops

It's all gotten more expensive lately, like everything else, but if you shop the sales and stock up when you find a good deal, it's doable. My diet is about 75% animal products, and I'm able to feed my wife and I on about $100/week.


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#4 ·
One of the cheapest, easiest to digest and highest quality sources of protein is Whey Isolate protein.
Also Eggs, and Greek Yogurt are relatively cheap.
I eat a lot of ground beef and canned chicken to get my protein in. I aim for 160 grams of protein every day even though the people I believe to be in the know (Dr Attia) think 1 gram/lb of bodyweight is best for building muscle.
 
#5 ·
I supplement with protein powder and eat nuts, beans also are good for this. The thing about eating more animal meat is it's more expensive. The cheapest form of protein is more than likely tuna. Eggs here are still well priced.
 
#6 ·
Protein intake depends on two things, how hard/often you train and age. You didn't mention your age. As we get older our bodies become less efficient at synthesizing protein. So we need to consume more. As a man in his mid 50s, protein is the only thing I make a a concerted effort to be consistent with consuming. Carbs, fats, fiber, etc., I'll generally get what I need through normal healthy eating. I volunteer with elderly people in an exercise program and trying to convince these people (especially women) in their 70s and up that they need to consume more protein is like pulling teeth.

Ground turkey generally contains more protein per gram than chicken. Organic ground turkey at Cost Co/Sam's Club is far cheaper than the local grocer. But as someone mentioned above,. legumes and beans, combined with rice, makes for an inexpensive and complete protein.

I also take on average 1-2 servings of protein powder a day, and not that GNC 'Extreme!!!' type crap. Simple stuff, like Bulk Supplements brand protein powder. Tasteless and mixes well with anything. I'll even put some in my coffee. And creatine definitely helps with recovery.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Image


"Conclusions: A high-protein diet increases tHcy concentrations throughout the day but does not increase fasting tHcy concentrations. As previously shown, the extent of the tHcy increase is modified by the amino acid composition of the protein diet. The clinical relevance of this finding depends on whether high concentrations of tHcy—particularly postprandially—cause cardiovascular disease. "
Image
 
#10 ·
In2falling said:
View attachment 2150301

"Conclusions: A high-protein diet increases tHcy concentrations throughout the day but does not increase fasting tHcy concentrations. As previously shown, the extent of the tHcy increase is modified by the amino acid composition of the protein diet. The clinical relevance of this finding depends on whether high concentrations of tHcy—particularly postprandially—cause cardiovascular disease. "
Click to expand...
Getting enough protein is far more beneficial than avoiding it for fear of the slight risk of a side effect.
 
#11 ·
bfdnelson said:
I've been training with a coach for the past 4 1/2 years, and this year we increased my training workload by ~15% (a reasonable increase). Overall, my performance has been better (as expected) but I haven't FELT as strong nor as good during the efforts. It feels like I can only train for 2-3 weeks at a time instead of my normal 3-4 weeks, and recovery feels like it takes longer. Long story short, I've done a lot of reading and I think diet, particularly low meat protein intake, is the root of the issue. I'm not a vegetarian, but my current diet is predominantly vegetables, grains, and low fat dairy with a small serving of turkey at lunch (2-3oz) and a serving of meat at dinner (6oz).

The studies that I've read show that I should be eating 16-18.5 oz of meat per day (based on my weight, 155lb), comprising >50% of my caloric intake. That's a lot of meat!

How the heck do you do this with good, lean meats without breaking the bank? I'm thinking I'd have to have a ton of skinless chicken in all 3 meals each day. Have any of you tried to intake this amount of protein per day? If so, how did you do it?
Click to expand...
I shoot for 200g protein daily. Lots of chicken, lean ground beef, egg whites, greek yogurt, and whey protein powder. Meat is NOT the only source of protein, and supplements can be better for you and your wallet. So much great research available if you really want to understand how your body benefits from protein and how to get what you need.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Sucker Punch said:
Protein intake depends on two things, how hard/often you train and age. You didn't mention your age. As we get older our bodies become less efficient at synthesizing protein. So we need to consume more. As a man in his mid 50s, protein is the only thing I make a a concerted effort to be consistent with consuming. Carbs, fats, fiber, etc., I'll generally get what I need through normal healthy eating. I volunteer with elderly people in an exercise program and trying to convince these people (especially women) in their 70s and up that they need to consume more protein is like pulling teeth.

Ground turkey generally contains more protein per gram than chicken. Organic ground turkey at Cost Co/Sam's Club is far cheaper than the local grocer. But as someone mentioned above,. legumes and beans, combined with rice, makes for an inexpensive and complete protein.

I also take on average 1-2 servings of protein powder a day, and not that GNC 'Extreme!!!' type crap. Simple stuff, like Bulk Supplements brand protein powder. Tasteless and mixes well with anything. I'll even put some in my coffee. And creatine definitely helps with recovery.
Click to expand...
I'm 43, and age is definitely playing into it. I'm only ~3 weeks into this protein education, so plenty more to learn and I appreciate all of the perspectives offered thus far, thanks! I also agree with some comments saying that I need more (unsaturated) fat. I have unintentionally/unknowingly decreased this over the past year and need to bring it back up, easy to do.

One of the pieces that I've found particularly interesting about protein intake is that many of the studies state that animal protein isn't equal to plant protein when you consider it's use for hormone creation/secretion and how excess is broken down and stored as carbs. My current diet already includes many legumes, beans, and nuts, hence I'm pretty curious about the potential impact of introducing more meat into my diet. And to be clear, I'm not proposing going full paleo or eating purely meat. I don't think I'm even capable of eating the full 16-18.5oz per day, but if I could get it up to 12-14oz, I wonder if I'd notice a difference.
 
#13 ·
Studies like this could use a bit more context. What is considered high? What does a 'healthy' subject mean? What is their physical output? Does a high animal protein diet include processed meat? Factory farm meats filled with hormones and antibiotics? Is high considered the same for a 150lb person as it is for a 250 lb person assuming they are consuming similar amounts?
 
#14 ·
We've started tracking macros and protein for my son, he struggles to eat enough calories and protein, especially on high volume weekends. His coach wants him between 120 and 140g per day (135#/60kg rider weight). He was about 1/2 that number when we started tracking, usually 60-80g/day.

Most economical/ easy to eat when he is low at the end of the day is a can of tuna. Around $1/can, 25g of protein each and he just eats it straight out of the can. The other daily thing we changed was breakfast, went from a bowl of grits (doesn't like oatmeal) to 3 eggs and two pieces of peanut butter toast. 33g of protein to kick off the day.

Time will tell if he starts seeing gains, but it's peace of mind for me to know I'm doing my part to support him.
 
#15 ·
MTB_Underdog said:
We've started tracking macros and protein for my son, he struggles to eat enough calories and protein, especially on high volume weekends. His coach wants him between 120 and 140g per day (135#/60kg rider weight). He was about 1/2 that number when we started tracking, usually 60-80g/day.

Most economical/ easy to eat when he is low at the end of the day is a can of tuna. Around $1/can, 25g of protein each and he just eats it straight out of the can. The other daily thing we changed was breakfast, went from a bowl of grits (doesn't like oatmeal) to 3 eggs and two pieces of peanut butter toast. 33g of protein to kick off the day.

Time will tell if he starts seeing gains, but it's peace of mind for me to know I'm doing my part to support him.
Click to expand...

edit- The othet thing his coach pointed out is when you use supplements to get your protein you aren't getting "complete proteins" which include the esential amino acids the human body can't produce. Didn't go any deeper than that, but if he wants us to stick with meat based protein that's the route we will go whenever possible.
 
#16 ·
Join this other forum: Backyard Chickens

Raise chickens. They're relatively easy. We haven't purchased eggs in 4 years.

We have 8 hens and get between 12-18 eggs per week. They free range our backyard and we supplement them with seed from a cheap farmer's feed store. They put themselves up in the coop at night and head out at the break of dawn to rid your yard of pesky bugs and weeds. They naturally aerate and fertilize the lawn and ours has never looked better.

Bonus: It's fun to see them get ahold of a small snake and chase each other around for it.

Warning - they fertilize EVERYWHERE.
 
#17 ·
I'm sure your coach is good at what he does, but he couldn't be more wrong. Any decent protein powder is most certainly a complete protein. There are 20 amino acids. Our bodies produces 11, foods make up the other 9 that we need. Every single commercially available protein powder worth buying on the market clearly lists the amino acids in their ingredients list.

MTB_Underdog said:
edit- The othet thing his coach pointed out is when you use supplements to get your protein you aren't getting "complete proteins" which include the esential amino acids the human body can't produce. Didn't go any deeper than that, but if he wants us to stick with meat based protein that's the route we will go whenever possible.
Click to expand...
 
#18 ·
Neuner said:
Join this other forum: Backyard Chickens

Raise chickens. They're relatively easy. We haven't purchased eggs in 4 years.

We have 8 hens and get between 12-18 eggs per week. They free range our backyard and we supplement them with seed from a cheap farmer's feed store. They put themselves up in the coop at night and head out at the break of dawn to rid your yard of pesky bugs and weeds. They naturally aerate and fertilize the lawn and ours has never looked better.

Bonus: It's fun to see them get ahold of a small snake and chase each other around for it.

Warning - they fertilize EVERYWHERE.
Click to expand...
I've had chickens forever. Here in Colorado, they produce the "most expensive eggs ever." Due to the lack of moisture, there is no way to keep them alive without store bought feed. They nuke any space they are kept in by overgrazing. And, to keep them alive, I had to build a Ft Knox style enclosure. Not cheap.

All that being said, I love the constant supply of eggs/protein.
 
#19 ·
If riders like Ben Hildred are doing 100 10k’ climbing days in a row on a vegan diet, they must be getting complete proteins from somewhere. I definitely use chicken (inexpensive) and salmon (locally easy to stock up on) to get a lot of protein, but I also start my day with a bowl of oatmeal and protein powder, and generally eat a lot of beans.
 
#20 ·
Sucker Punch said:
Studies like this could use a bit more context. What is considered high? What does a 'healthy' subject mean? What is their physical output? Does a high animal protein diet include processed meat? Factory farm meats filled with hormones and antibiotics? Is high considered the same for a 150lb person as it is for a 250 lb person assuming they are consuming similar amounts?
Click to expand...
I dove really deep into this when I got back into "gym life" and it sounds like anyone staying below @ 1.5g protein per pound lean bodyweight is fine...and most people never get close to that! I know I thought I was eating enough protein and when I tracked, I was barely getting @ 130 a day. Some days it is HARD to get 200...and that is my top nutritional goal.
 
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