Seen on multiple bike at Sea Otter the Fox RAD prototype USD fork:
![Image]()
Fox Podium inverted fork
6 reading
Rick Draper
61 - 80 of 580 Posts
Joined
·
6,030 Posts
I put zero stock in online reviews at this point, and we can agree, the cheaper Fox dampers are actually better.
The BEST “Fox” fork I’ve ridden to date, is the Marzocchi Z1 Coil.
While it can get spikey, the “heavy” open bath damper somehow work better than essentially every other Fox damper I’ve ridden.
Joined
·
6,030 Posts
Maybe this is where we fundamentally differ.
I. Don’t. Ride. Park.
I’m not trying to shame those who do, but a lot of us have a lot of riding in before we even reached the peaks…
It’s simply not the same type of riding.
Cane Creek got kindof a bad rep due to a few product failures, the DBInline thing being a massive one and the early v1 Helm had both functional flaws and reliability issues. These have since been fixed and it's a fantastic fork, but it's outshined by the newer Fox and Manitou products IMO. They are one of the only brands aside from Ohlins and Formula that offer coil forks in simple (e.g. no hydraulic or air spring bs) form.
The other reason - most of these products are not on OEM bikes and deals are harder to come by. Ohlins flat out doesn't discount their stuff unless it's prior gen, Manitou isn't on any OEM builds (fatbikes aside), Formula (who makes very good suspension products IMO) isn't widely known in the US, PUSH is expensive/heavy, EXT is expensive/service sucks, etc. All of the above are more time intensive to dial in than Fox/RS products generally are, but IMO you end up with a much better result when you do and they have more variation available for riders of different weight/riding styles.
Fox and RS are just kindof the Honda of mtb components. Finding people to work on them is easy, dialing them in compared to some of the other options is easier, they may not be as good overall but they work. It helps that it's often easier for people to get deals on them and if they buy OE builds from manufacturers, they will have one or the other. Upgrading suspension is expensive and most people just don't bother. It may not be the best, but it's cheaper to find, easier to work on, and faster to setup.
Joined
·
6,030 Posts
Cool.
Doesn’t change the fact that traversing and climbing on your own, for hours, is completely different than lift assist.
Completely. Different.
I distinctly remember the first time I ever shuttled to a descent. I remember feeling how weird it was to be fresh when I was about to descend.
It was pretty weird.
Joined
·
1,207 Posts
Because I mention a park day you assume I don’t climb? Very odd. 98% of my riding is from my own leg power. You realize it’s pretty common for people to ride at a bike park sometimes right? Happens to also be a place where you can get a lot more descending in a single day then you could climb with your own legs.
Joined
·
1,207 Posts
I'd put my Zeb 3.1 up against just about anything. The thing rips. She's a looker too.
Joined
·
6,030 Posts
You specifically mentioned a park…
I don’t know what else you expected me to get from that…
Sorry, that wasn't meant to be an insult, it's just that the RS/Fox products are generally easier and more readily available to the average mountain biker.
Features on the Mezzer like IRT give more adjustment and tunability, the dampers are also easier to tune and service. 3 chamber airsprings like IRT, Ramp Control (Ohlins), and EXTs solution provide much more granular control over progression and better overall feel. The Formula valving system provides a lot of control over how the forks damping feels. Some of these provide coil over air which, IMO, is superior in every way other than weight - with Fox/RS you have to use some 3rd party solution which overcomplicates the whole system IMO. Some of these have HBO, damper architectures that are less problematic/harsh, more receptive to tuning, innovative ways of dealing with flex, etc. Not all of them are great, don't get me wrong, but a lot of them are better than any RS/Fox product I've tried.
All that being said, I actually got along with the GRIPX2 pretty well on my 38 and had an OK time on the C3 Lyrik on my trailbike, but the latter was replaced with a Helm Coil that was a significant improvement.
I've sampled a lot of the products on the market, a lot of these smaller brands are doing things in a more innovative, interesting way but are outshone by Fox/RS market reach and production capacity. I think there is a tendency among mountain bikers to try one thing, then never do anything else and assume it's the greatest. You see it with tires, brakes, suspension components, etc. If you have something you love, that's great, really, but there is a wide market out there and unless you've sampled or tested most of it, it's impossible to make comparisons.
Joined
·
6,030 Posts
I can only go off what you offer up.
You offered up a park day as your “torture test”.
Sorry if I didn’t respond the way you wanted me to.
What’s your idea of a torture test?
Joined
·
1,207 Posts
No worries, makes sense. I tried the Mezzer but after fussing with it for quite a bit I could not get the sensitivity where I wanted. I wasn't a huge fan of the EXT rear shock so didn't want to risk it on the fork. For the helm, the chassis is quite a bit lighter then a 38/Zeb and I wouldn't want to give up stiffness in the ~170 travel category.
I'm open to anything on the market that offers a clear benefit- but benefits i've heard so far are specifically for riders who fall outside of the normal weight range, in which case I agree it make sense to go aftermarket on the damper. I don't really blame Fox/RS for this though - this is simply how dampers work. You need to optimize for a weight range.
Regarding chassis, the Zeb and 38 feel stiff, no issues there. Air spring, you can make the argument they lack midstroke but I didn't think the Mezzer was significantly better in this regard (but it was better), and the improved mid stroke on the Mezzer was outweighed by its lack of traction for my riding style.
I wouldn't be surprised if Ohlins makes an objectively better fork than Fox/RS - if it can offer better midstroke while maintaining similar traction. But i've heard they need kept up on service routinely or they lose their sensitivity. I'd probably have the Ohlins if it wasn't so pricey in the US and more readily available.
Joined
·
5,816 Posts
I think it ceased being a thread about USD a page or two back 🤣This thread is surprisingly civil and on-topic considering it’s about a USD fork
I've already got a USD fork.
Joined
·
3,483 Posts
Let's compare the Push philosophy vs the Fox one
Push: release a great product, that's so good that it doesn't need to be changed for YEARS
Fox: release a product that touted as "best ever", that the media are positive about...except for the comments from the media about how it fixes the problem from the last model. Do you remember how the Specialized/Fox brain always lacked small bump compliance / responsiveness, then then the next iteration addressed it, then the next iteration addressed it... and so on for ~15 years.
Push don't need to worry about Fox. Fox's business model is to keep selling you new stuff. Push's model is to sell you something once and then earn revenue from servicing.
The buyer who wants better than average will pick Push or similar.
Joined
·
3,181 Posts
Most people don’t know what performs well and doesn’t when it comes to suspension. However once you know you can’t go backwards.
The other issue that clouds everything is:
1) They argue for what they have.
2) They argue for what they can afford.
The other issue that clouds everything is:
1) They argue for what they have.
2) They argue for what they can afford.
Joined
·
1,207 Posts
people use way too much hyperbole on forums. “Brand X feels way better than brand Y”, or “brand X sucks and their damper is ****”.
Reality is
1) most people don’t have their suspension setup well
2) as long as you’re in a normal weight range; a Fox 38/36 or Zeb/Lyrik is not holding you back from anything
3) people love to hate on the big brands
Reality is
1) most people don’t have their suspension setup well
2) as long as you’re in a normal weight range; a Fox 38/36 or Zeb/Lyrik is not holding you back from anything
3) people love to hate on the big brands
61 - 80 of 580 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
