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Hayes Dominion A4 4-piston brakes - 10 key points why this may be one of the best options today

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#63 ·
I could never get these things bled properly. Super messy which is super annoying. I don't know if l have a defective batch (l don't probably) or what but its a bummer. I'm used to the feel of Shimano and im not sure what l should be looking for in feel with these things.
 
#64 ·
SasquatchMTB said:
I could never get these things bled properly. Super messy which is super annoying. I don't know if l have a defective batch (l don't probably) or what but its a bummer. I'm used to the feel of Shimano and im not sure what l should be looking for in feel with these things.
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The feel is light and free lever to firm bite point. If it's mushy or won't retract properly you've likely got a bad bleed.
There's no reason for it to be messy. You've got caliper fittings to syringe each end.

Lever down at 45 degrees, pads out and bleed-block in the caliper. Finish the bleed with the lever end by sucking up on the syringe to expand any air bubbles up and out of their hiding places.
 
#65 ·
Whenever l would take the syringes off fluid would come gush out causing a huge mess before l could get closed off again. I have no doubt its user error but just hassle to Shimano easy peasy bleeding. Someday l do want to get them up and running
 
#66 ·
SasquatchMTB said:
Whenever l would take the syringes off fluid would come gush out causing a huge mess before l could get closed off again. I have no doubt its user error but just hassle to Shimano easy peasy bleeding. Someday l do want to get them up and running
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Sounds like you're pressurising the brake before removing them. Simply pull/push on the lever syringe when done to find a neutral point where there's no pressure before unscrewing it.
Get it right and you just have a small bubble in the bleed port when you unscrew.
 
#68 ·
Adodero said:
So if you have hand fatigue problems, I'd probably go with the Hopes over anything. Fatigue in this case being sore due to muscle movements, the Hopes have an obscenely light throw even through the point the pads are engaged. If your problems are closer to mine, where your hands are strong enough but engaging the bars is what causes you problems, then any of them are good although I'd probably lean towards Hopes or Mavens. The Hopes if you prefer a lighter engagement point (I hate to use the word vague, but almost vague at times), Mavens if you prefer a firmer, more pronounced lever feel. I also felt like the Mavens had more power and considerably more ramp up.
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Sorry to dig up an old post, but just wanted to check on your thoughts here as your views on Hope are kinda the opposite of mine, but it may be interpretation. I am considering Hayes A4s to help with hand pain, so your post interests me.

I have Hope E4 with Tech3 levers for several years. I owned V4s before those on a different bike. What I found was that they have great modulation and they have a lot of stopping power, but they need a lot of effort via the finger to get that force - that's how they get so much modulation, because they need a lot of force - the greater the force range required to go from light to heavy braking, the better the modulation. I used to love that, because the modulation was so good. But as I have gotten older, I've been suffering hand pain when I ride, and a lot of that came from the forces to brake with the Hopes. For me it is not about the intial lever feel, that is light enough on any brake, it's the force required for moderate to heavy braking that causes discomfort.

I switched to Formula Cura 2 and found them to be much more comfortable. Some loss of modulation, but less hand strain to apply moderate braking. However I have just changed frames, and find myself going faster on the new bike, fast enough that I'm noticing the Cura 2 a little under powered.

So now I am thinking about the A4. I read that they have an incredibly light lever action to deliver heavy braking with lots of power. So I am thinking, these could be ideal. More power than the Hopes and Curas, lighter action that the Cura, way lighter than the Hope was what I read. But you appear to be suggesting the Hopes have the lightest action, which is confusing, as its the opposite of what I know of Hopes - unless you mean lightest to engagement, but still much firmer and harder to pull to full power than the Cura or A4?

The other thing putting me off - my Hopes were trouble free for years, my Cura's have been trouble free for 2 years. I'm reading about leaking pistons and bleed ports in this thread for the Hayes?
 
#69 · (Edited)
zerolight said:
But you appear to be suggesting the Hopes have the lightest action, which is confusing, as its the opposite of what I know of Hopes - unless you mean lightest to engagement, but still much firmer and harder to pull to full power than the Cura or A4?

The other thing putting me off - my Hopes were trouble free for years, my Cura's have been trouble free for 2 years. I'm reading about leaking pistons and bleed ports in this thread for the Hayes?
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The Hope T4s are a vast improvement over the T3s. If your experiences with the Hope brakes is from the T3s then I'd consider at least trying the T4s to feel the difference, they made a huge improvement in the lever design that results in a much lighter lever pull. I never tried the T3s extensively, only on friends bikes, and agree I wasn't really stoked on them. The power for a given lever pressure you get is IME much higher than the A4s and especially the Curas, but if you are comparing against the previous gen brake then that'll change things. The pull on the T4 is so light that I had to adjust coming from A4s to avoid over braking because I was so used to that end lever stroke pressure buildup on the A4s that I'd pull them too far because it wasn't there with the T4 V4s.

How much do you weigh? I'm 220lbs so what works for me might be different than you, it's also worth remembering that hand pain has many causes. Mine stems from nerve compression and general weakness on one side, brakes help or make this worse depending on how much grip strength I have to use to pull the lever along with lever ergonomics. What I found for me is that more powerful brakes that allow me to feather the bite point on the lever with greater ease and less hand pressure required, which in turn allowed me to ride longer. Some brakes were profoundly terrible at this, others were better. I've also come to the conclusion that brakes don't modulate well, riders do. Brakes either have a very progressively, fast power ramp up or they have a slower linear power increase. The latter is what people describe as "good modulation" but IMO it just means the power comes on slower and that wasn't something that worked for me. In the 9 or so brakes I tried, I found when people described modulation it meant you needed a mega long lever pull to get the power I wanted out of them. I prefer levers close to the bar so having to have the lever out in space didn't work for me (closer to the bar helped with my hand issues also, nerve pressure in your hand will change depending on lever position).

As for the A4s, they are kindof middling in today's market. I could overheat them and cause them to fade, the power is OK but there is too much deadstroke for my taste and putting a lot of power down does require more firm pulling at the end of the stroke than the T4 V4, Maxima, Trinity, Radic, or Maven. I didn't have any maintenance or reliability problems with mine, I can't say how prevalent that is, but most of mine were made pre 2021. My wife has a later set on hers and they've been fine for several years. Everyone will have QC problems to some extent, I wouldn't take whatever is being said on YouTube as gospel, all mine were flawless in that regard and I don't know anyone that's had issues with them leaking personally. I ran some sets hard for several years and again no problems. OTOH their QC may have gone down the toilet or they made a running change that aren't on mine, I can't speak to that. They are good brakes but I wouldn't put them as top tier.
 
#71 ·
I feel like brakes are a lot of times a more personal thing than some would indicate. Heavier riders will need different setups than lighter riders, people who ride a lot of steep technical terrain will need different setups than those who ride more gradual grades, wheel size plays a role as does tire choice, and so on.

Your best bet is to try what you can. Unfortunately a lot of these brands don't exactly have a huge presence on demo bikes or rental bikes but you can get somewhat of a baseline for the lever feel in a parking lot or steep hill, although it doesn't tell all.
 
#73 ·
Adodero said:
The Hope T4s are a vast improvement over the T3s. If your experiences with the Hope brakes is from the T3s then I'd consider at least trying the T4s to feel the difference, they made a huge improvement in the lever design that results in a much lighter lever pull. I never tried the T3s extensively, only on friends bikes, and agree I wasn't really stoked on them. The power for a given lever pressure you get is IME much higher than the A4s and especially the Curas, but if you are comparing against the previous gen brake then that'll change things. The pull on the T4 is so light that I had to adjust coming from A4s to avoid over braking because I was so used to that end lever stroke pressure buildup on the A4s that I'd pull them too far because it wasn't there with the T4 V4s.
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I have a pair of T4V4 under my desk to install and bleed tomorrow if I can talk myself into the ordeal. :)
 
#74 ·
zerolight said:
I have a pair of T4V4 under my desk to install and bleed tomorrow if I can talk myself into the ordeal. :)
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If it could go wrong, it went wrong. Even managed to pop a piston on the rear so that bleed was fun! And my work stand folded on me resulting in a small ding to my frame. Gah. 😢

Still, done and ready to ride, even if it took me about 2 hours longer than expected. Debut ride tomorrow morning.
 
#76 ·
Adodero said:
If you know someone with a 3d printer, Hope has STL files for bleed blocks and a centering tool. I would strongly suggest using them if you can! They make it a lot easier
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I was just careless. Did the front fine then forgot to move the bleed block. Don’t know what I was thinking. I even spent time lubing each piston with Hope/Hunter silicone lube. I just had a massive brain fart doing the rear.
 
#79 ·
I got accosted for this last time, but the bleed process for Hope brakes is janky and dumb in this era. The fact you are basically required to spill some amount of fluid to me always seemed dumb. There should, IMO, be a bleed port on the lever somewhere so you can use a syringe or something. There are brakes more miserable to bleed, but personally I wish they'd refine this to be more on par with most other offerings that keep the system sealed.

I appreciate the STL files though, it is nice you can select what you want and eliminates waste.
 
#80 ·
Adodero said:
I got accosted for this last time, but the bleed process for Hope brakes is janky and dumb in this era. The fact you are basically required to spill some amount of fluid to me always seemed dumb. There should, IMO, be a bleed port on the lever somewhere so you can use a syringe or something. There are brakes more miserable to bleed, but personally I wish they'd refine this to be more on par with most other offerings that keep the system sealed.

I appreciate the STL files though, it is nice you can select what you want and eliminates waste.
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Agree, the SRAM threaded syringe at both ends would be better. That said, I used the easy bleed kit which made it simple, if only I’d used a bleed block on the rear. It’s also easier with two pairs of hands for the rear so one can do the lever whilst the other does the open and close at the bleed port.

I’m surprised they haven’t made a prettier version of the easy bleed kit diaphragm cap with a bleed port screw, and a revised diaphragm to go with a sealed variant as an after market upgrade. Combine that with a new threaded bleed port to replace the nipple. Seems like an easy tweak to their design that would be an upsell.

Anyway, thanks for your recommendation. They were tremendous today on the trail.
 
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