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Playful/nimble Enduro bike

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#21 ·
Kartwheel68 said:
After I got my Stevo, I didnt ride my 2016 SB5 for almost a year and a half. After that long I was shocked at how much more fun and playful it was on less than "enduro" trails compared to the Stevo. I had thought about selling it, but decided right then I had to keep it "for my wife", if you know what I mean.
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Funny thing is I have what most would consider one of the most playful "modern" bikes you can buy right now. Rail 27.5. I had a mechanical so I rode an old 26'er converted into a mini mullet with pretty modern components to make it ride great other than the stupid slack ST angle and excessively compact geo. That old bike makes my rail feel like a glued to the ground race bike that only wants to plow. Shorter wheelbase/reach, lighter weight, and shorter stays makes a world of difference. It's been so long since I rode a bike like that I forgot what's it's like. Skittish and unstable at speed but my god you can toss it around so much easier. I really enjoyed precision wheel placement rather than plowing at high speeds. I'm happy to be back on my Rail but like you, I think I'll keep my old bike even longer because it's still a fun time.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
slimat99 said:
Funny thing is I have what most would consider one of the most playful "modern" bikes you can buy right now. Rail 27.5. I had a mechanical so I rode an old 26'er converted into a mini mullet with pretty modern components to make it ride great other than the stupid slack ST angle and excessively compact geo. That old bike makes my rail feel like a glued to the ground race bike that only wants to plow. Shorter wheelbase/reach, lighter weight, and shorter stays makes a world of difference. It's been so long since I rode a bike like that I forgot what's it's like. Skittish and unstable at speed but my god you can toss it around so much easier. I really enjoyed precision wheel placement rather than plowing at high speeds. I'm happy to be back on my Rail but like you, I think I'll keep my old bike even longer because it's still a fun time.
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Good to hear, I'm restoring my 2005 Turner DHR to ride a few times this year for fun, wonder how it's going to feel after so long, been 15 years since I rode it.
 
#24 ·
This is funny, when I hop on an old bike with small wheels, steeper geometry, and shorter wheelbase I don't find myself thinking, "how playful" but rather, "how the hell did I ever ride this thing???" 🤪

I've always maintained that a bike's "playfulness" has more to do with the rider than the bike itself. If a DH bike or e-bike can be considered "playful" then sure as s*** an enduro bike can. It's more mindset and on how you choose to ride the thing.

Take another look at the Spire.
 
#26 ·
Kartwheel68 said:
Well, my SB5 is not that old and the geo is still fairly modern, its not sketchy at all, its just a little shorter wheelbase and smaller wheels, but that gives it a nimbleness that the Stevo doesnt have.
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I have a Stumpjumper EVO and hardly ever ride it because my Spire is more fun. Something about the Specialized makes it ride weird.
 
#27 ·
Nat said:
This is funny, when I hop on an old bike with small wheels, steeper geometry, and shorter wheelbase I don't find myself thinking, "how playful" but rather, "how the hell did I ever ride this thing???" 🤪

I've always maintained that a bike's "playfulness" has more to do with the rider than the bike itself. If a DH bike or e-bike can be considered "playful" then sure as s*** an enduro bike can. It's more mindset and on how you choose to ride the thing.

Take another look at the Spire.
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Depends on the set up. My old bike has an angle set and longer fork to produce 65HA. Mini mullet with 65HA, short wheel base, chain stays, reach is an absolute blast. Feels like a full suspension DJ bike with an enduro bike head angle. Super fun in spite of the weird feel at first and skittishness at speed. Stability and traction aren't adjectives I use to describe a playful bike so it's to be expected.
 
#28 ·
I’m admittedly a bit biased, but take a gander at an Insurgent (or Wreckoning if you’re set on 29”). They’re some of the more playful modern big bikes I’ve ridden while still being plenty capable in the big stuff.

Re boost vs superboost, I’ve run boost wheels with problem solver adapters for years sans issue.
 
#29 ·
taadski said:
I’m admittedly a bit biased, but take a gander at an Insurgent (or Wreckoning if you’re set on 29”). They’re some of the more playful modern big bikes I’ve ridden while still being plenty capable in the big stuff.

Re boost vs superboost, I’ve run boost wheels with problem solver adapters for years sans issue.
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My Wreckoning was a lot of fun. Good suggestion.
 
#31 ·
Blkdoutindustries said:
Thanks for all the suggestions, a little more background just in case, I'm 5'10 with a +4 ape index (all arms) 148lbs, preferred reach is anywhere from 455 to 475ish. I still want a bike that can rip downhill for when I ride with friends or do blacks on my own but just don't want one that feels dead on mellow trails but I know that's going to be hard so I'm thinking it's going to have to be something in the 455-460 with a HA in the 64s or when 65. Ideally coil compatible.

I've demoed a couple Pivots and was looking at a switchblade but just couldn't get along with the ultra short CS, most are 429-430 but might have to give it a try again.
Doesn't have to be full 29 since I have a rear Berd 27.5 I just don't want full 27.5 since I have thousands on new Berd wheelsets already.

Would a mullet/mx inherently be more playful than full 29?
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If the frame is optimized for mullet then yes. Usually that means a shorter chainstay. Slightly less wheel weight /inertia and slight better acceleration.

Shorter chainstay does make the bike twitchier at speed though. This is the downside of more playfulness.

I'll say it again look at high pivot. You almost get two bikes in one. More playful ad low speed and stable at high speed/big chunk.

I came off a 2017 27.5 slayer that was a super playful bike, but at high speed it became a handful. Jumping on the mullet claymore its is similar amounts of playful down low speeds. Then when you ramp the speed up its so much more stable.

Its really worth chucking your leg over a few high pivot designs and trying for yourself. I think one of the biggest advantages is that they can be both playful and stable at the same time.

PS Medium Claymore hits your geo numbers.
PSSI run a 180mm zeb on mine and get 63.9° hta. I'm also over stroking the rear shock to 65mm to get 170mm ish of travel.

Image
 
#32 ·
slimat99 said:
The industry is literally killing off playful bikes. Anyone who thinks any of today's 29'er or MX bikes are playful needs to ride a shorter wheelbase smaller wheeled bike to remind them of what playful actually means. Can you play with today's 29'ers? Of course. Just as you can ride super fast on a 26'er. Something has to give though. Play is what gives on today bikes.
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Playfulness is relative to the bikes overall performance window. Current Geo bikes are a lot more capable than their older more "playful" counterparts. The older geo bikes tap out a lot sooner in the chunk they can ride safely.

Also once you re-calibrate to the new geo you can ride as playfully as the older geo bike. The big advantage however is that you have a far more capable bike that the old one.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
taadski said:
I’m admittedly a bit biased, but take a gander at an Insurgent (or Wreckoning if you’re set on 29”). They’re some of the more playful modern big bikes I’ve ridden while still being plenty capable in the big stuff.

Re boost vs superboost, I’ve run boost wheels with problem solver adapters for years sans issue.
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I'll look into the insurgent, I have a super boost 27.5 rear shape from my arrival. Rest I can't convert since I'm using onyx hook hubs center lock

plummet said:
If the frame is optimized for mullet then yes. Usually that means a shorter chainstay. Slightly less wheel weight /inertia and slight better acceleration.

Shorter chainstay does make the bike twitchier at speed though. This is the downside of more playfulness.

I'll say it again look at high pivot. You almost get two bikes in one. More playful ad low speed and stable at high speed/big chunk.

I came off a 2017 27.5 slayer that was a super playful bike, but at high speed it became a handful. Jumping on the mullet claymore its is similar amounts of playful down low speeds. Then when you ramp the speed up its so much more stable.

Its really worth chucking your leg over a few high pivot designs and trying for yourself. I think one of the biggest advantages is that they can be both playful and stable at the same time.

PS Medium Claymore hits your geo numbers.
PSSI run a 180mm zeb on mine and get 63.9° hta. I'm also over stroking the rear shock to 65mm to get 170mm ish of travel.

View attachment 2128161
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I'll do some reading on the deviate for sure, originally was looking at the Hope hb916 but thought it was going to be a lot of bike also
 
#35 ·
I love my Spire, but I wouldn’t call it playful. It could be the weight (41lbs!) but I’d look at the Patrol. There’s a side of me that wishes I had gone that route, but at the same time the Spire is so incredibly capable.
 
#36 ·
Blkdoutindustries said:
I'll look into the insurgent, I have a super boost 27.5 rear shape from my arrival. Rest I can't convert since I'm using onyx hook hubs center lock


I'll do some reading on the deviate for sure, originally was looking at the Hope hb916 but thought it was going to be a lot of bike also
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High pivot is definitely worth looking at.
Also consider light wheelset and tires. That can transform park slug into a playful trail/enduro bike.
 
#40 ·
nya said:
What does playful mean then?
I've had 26 bikes, HTs with 72 head angles, 425 chainstay 27.5 bikes, all kind of 29s (XC, trail, en, more en!), CX, DJ...and I would not say the earlier bikes where more playful than the latest ones, I would say the other way around
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Playful (and poppy) are just a couple of silly adjectives that people have assigned to bikes. If you want to be playful it's on you to ride your bike in a playful manner (e.g., point it at every rock, root, bump, and throw some tricks). If you take a supposedly playful bike and just roll straight down the middle of the green trail without doing anything other than rolling forward then it's not really playful, is it?
 
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