Has anyone used the new Vivid air ultimate ?
new Vivid air ultimate shock good?
Picard
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Nah, because it's got a big negative chamber to make it soft off the top.
Think megneg and what they did.
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What if the megneg allowed you to run far less to zero positive can spacers while gaining significant mid-support? I read your thread on the megneg but got lost in the weeds if I'm being honest.
On my Spire I need to run one additional spacer than the stock tune to avoid bottom out but would prefer significantly more midstroke and less ramp on the super deluxe ultimate. I really like how that shock rides on the bike I just want to make it better.
Doubtful I would choose a vivid for the Spire over something like a Kitsuma but am vivid curious and always wanting to learn.
That doesn't change the more linear nature of the larger air spring.
If you don't like the Vivid, at least give a valid reason.
PS. The megneg when set up correctly was freakin' awesome.
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I'm no suspension, or even riding expert. But Strava mostly doesn't lie. My Spire felt best with a Kitsuma coil, but was quite a bit faster with a Super Deluxe and Megneg once i set both up and went back and forth a few times. I think I settled on one spacer in each chamber. Your mileage may vary though.
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18,186 Posts
Cool, thanks for that, appreciate it.
So you only ran one negative band in the magneg?
Mind if I ask how much you weigh?
Thanks
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Yeah, I still have the bike on the stand and would need to go look. But I'm almost positive I settled on one and one as far as volume spacers. Riding weight is about 195 (backpack, helmet, shoes etc.). I'm blanking on pressure used. I upped compression quite a bit and ran rebound fast though. It's one of those things that I would have never had guessed based on feel alone. The coil certainly felt a ton better, less fatiguing as well. And actually was initially quite a bit faster. But swapping back and forth was pretty interesting.
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29,132 Posts
Yeah, I like having the three positions from which to choose plus the tool-free adjustment dials.
You really need to test it back-to-back from 4 bands (smallest negative chamber, closest to stock) and then start removing them resetting sag with every change. It's a very specific spot where the larger negative chamber at first nicely improved the midrange support but then all of the sudden you go one band too many and it's like hitting a wall of support, not in a good way.
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18,186 Posts
I will for sure. I plan to start with all four bands in. Just curious what others experience is. Kind of a pain in the neck to pull the bands on a trunnion shock either way.
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1,526 Posts
A million percent this. You get it wrong and it turns the shock into a jack hammer.
My understanding is that the megneg was best for linear or digressive suspension kinetics and only really affected the ending (25%?) of travel by adding progression. It's not really a ONLY mid travel support aid as the higher positive chamber pressure needed to offset the megneg pressure adds "support" to the full range of travel. Meaning less small bump sensitivity. I recall the Spire being a good candidate for the megneg because of this and opposite, bikes with progressive kinetics will find it difficult to use full travel. The larger negative chamber (like the VIvid) of the megneg allows it to break into its travel easier but outside of that the two are more opposite than similar.
Not to derail the thread but I found these helpful when I was looking into the megneg. I'm probably fact checking myself here, ha:
Reader Review: Rock Shox MegNeg Upgrade
Read up on the Loam Wolf’s thorough review of the RockShox MegNeg upgrade before you consider purchasing one. Take a look now!
theloamwolf.com
Rockshox MegNeg Long Term Review
Introduced earlier this year with the Rockshox 2020 lineup, the Rockshox MegNeg creates a mega negative chamber to help your bike into the travel and create a more plush ride with better mid-stroke support. With tuning options to dial in the feel, check out why we have loved riding the Rockshox...
www.worldwidecyclery.com
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29,132 Posts
I want to ride that trail!!!My understanding is that the megneg was best for linear or digressive suspension kinetics and only really affected the ending (25%?) of travel by adding progression. It's not really a ONLY mid travel support aid as the higher positive chamber pressure needed to offset the megneg pressure adds "support" to the full range of travel. Meaning less small bump sensitivity. I recall the Spire being a good candidate for the megneg because of this and opposite, bikes with progressive kinetics will find it difficult to use full travel. The larger negative chamber (like the VIvid) of the megneg allows it to break into its travel easier but outside of that the two are more opposite than similar.
Not to derail the thread but I found these helpful when I was looking into the megneg. I'm probably fact checking myself here, ha:
Reader Review: Rock Shox MegNeg Upgrade
Read up on the Loam Wolf’s thorough review of the RockShox MegNeg upgrade before you consider purchasing one. Take a look now!Rockshox MegNeg Long Term Review
Introduced earlier this year with the Rockshox 2020 lineup, the Rockshox MegNeg creates a mega negative chamber to help your bike into the travel and create a more plush ride with better mid-stroke support. With tuning options to dial in the feel, check out why we have loved riding the Rockshox...
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18,186 Posts
I don't have a precise comprehension of the effect of more pressure versus reducing volume with spacers. Currently running four spacers in the shock I hope I can offset one with the other via the Megneg and more psi to gain more mid support. Hopefully having four volume spacers in the positive can leaves me a lot of room to play with.
I believe I've watched and read both of your links and is kind of what sold me on trying it versus buying a new shock.
I quite like the super deluxe on the spire for all around trail riding. I hope to gain more mid support, a little less end ramp, and I'm also hoping higher PSIs help it recover faster and stay higher on fast repetitive hits.
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If you need more progression then you need more progression. Progression and mid-stroke support are opposites though.
You keep assuming it's more linear because it's bigger. Bigger only means lower pressure and doesn't dictate anything about curve shape. I haven't seen a "linear" rear shock air spring yet.
RockShox Vivid Air Shock Launches with Position-Sensitive TouchDown Damper
RockShox finally unveil the Vivid Air Shock for DH, Enduro and eMTB, with new positive-sensitive TouchDown damper and coil-like air spring
bikerumor.com
The megneg for most riders gave too much sag and too much progression. There was only a limited number of rider/bike combinations it worked well for. Many riders hit pressure limits and were still riding too low.
You are misreading everything I'm writing here. You think I don't like the shock where I have never said that.
I have said buying a DH shock for a trail bike is a silly idea. Yet we have people all over the internet wanting the vivid for their trail bikes simply because it's new. Where the Super Deluxe Air would be a far better match.
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18,186 Posts
I'm not equating the two specifically, I want more mid stroke. A bit awkward for me to articulate succinctly but I can lose four positive can spacers in that pursuit once I put the magneg on. In other words, hopefully I don't need to worry about anymore progressivity the magneg ads.
If you need more progression then you need more progression. Progression and mid-stroke support are opposites though.
You keep assuming it's more linear because it's bigger. Bigger only means lower pressure and doesn't dictate anything about curve shape. I haven't seen a "linear" rear shock air spring yet.
View attachment 2077674RockShox Vivid Air Shock Launches with Position-Sensitive TouchDown Damper
RockShox finally unveil the Vivid Air Shock for DH, Enduro and eMTB, with new positive-sensitive TouchDown damper and coil-like air spring
The megneg for most riders gave too much sag and too much progression. There was only a limited number of rider/bike combinations it worked well for. Many riders hit pressure limits and were still riding too low.
You are misreading everything I'm writing here. You think I don't like the shock where I have never said that.
I have said buying a DH shock for a trail bike is a silly idea. Yet we have people all over the internet wanting the vivid for their trail bikes simply because it's new. Where the Super Deluxe Air would be a far better match.
On an air spring, adding volume reducers increases the rate at which the air spring ramps up, making the air spring more progressive.
You refer to the 'curve shape' but if the air can is larger, it'll be more progressive.
The Negneg worked very well on my Mondraker and I have a huge regret because I sold that shock off when I sold the frame where-as I should have kept it for my wife's Mondraker that has all of the same issues. That bike has a wonky suspension curve however.
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17,486 Posts
With rear shocks the length you've got to work with is fixed and it becomes a game of robbing Peter to pay Paul. If you want more negative volume then you have to steal some positive volume. Which makes positive more progressive.
Megneg ran more negative volume and therefore had to run a deeper equalisation notch position to compress the negative enough. It was able to use more external volume which didn't steal positive. But.
The deeper notch means more sag whether you want it or not.
The more negative air means positive had to run at higher pressure to deliver the sag range that's useable.
Many riders (especially big guys on Santa Cruz and other higher leverage bikes) were hitting maximum pressure limits and still riding too low.
For some rider/bike combinations the megneg worked out great. But I turned away virtually all Megneg sales. I think I sold 2 total and fitted another that a customer bought.
Yes, you can change the travel to any stroke within a set eye to eye. For 205 you can have 57.5, 60, 62.5 and 65. There are travel reducers in the air can and damper piston. Starts on pg 50, I wouldn't call it a simple process.
I’m on a weareone Arrival, and i’m ordering the 170 links and looking at which shock to fit. I’ve used a megneg superdeluxe in the past, but i did find what you’re saying to be true (the shock worked really well on a specialized enduro, but sucked on my banshee titan), so i think a megneg on the arrival 170 would feel bad. Is a bike like the Arrival 170, which comes with a coil, going to be too progressive for a Vivid? And would the mid stroke be better with a coil?
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