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Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]

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#3,683 · (Edited)
Kaptain Lurpak said:
Hi all. Wow this thread is massive... From reading the first 16 pages i noted something. I just picked up a used mezzer, most likely pre 21.

I wanted to try the mezzer since i got an R8 om my dc bike, and its freaking amazing out of the box. Its insanely plush and supportive. So i expected the same on the mezzer.

I weigh 170lbs'ish, and i find the fork a bit stiff compared to my R8.
I ensured to pressurize correctly as mentioned in the beginning and even if i run at 35psi in main chamber i find it a bit stiff.

As many mention i guess first step is to remove the 17.5mm shim or Would it be best to replace it with the 12 ?

When the fork is apart, would it it be wort removing the rebound shim as well .?

Also, what oil do you recommend for the damper ? I see supergliss for the bath, and i should be able to find that. Thanks !
Click to expand...
1. Remove the 17.5. You’ll have a good LSC range and you can always widen in by winding HSC in 1 click.
2. Sand rebound piston flat (it is dished and you want to make it flat) and use one shim with stock clamping shims. Rebound on this fork is better suited for heavier guys who run their airspring progressive. I personally have opened up piston ports and machined thinner 6x7mm (in place of stock 6x8mm) clamp washers from steel but I am still experimenting.
3. Use 25x3.5 main piston quad (or even o-ring) and 10x3 air shaft seal.
4. Check if you have good bushing clearance (and chassis alignment). My experience so far is that mezzers are on the tight side. Seek burnishing or try to remedy it with lighter lower leg oil (hard to find one which clings good - maybe 32k slideway?). A more stable oil can help a lot too - I changed 68k mineral to a known slippery synthetic of a similar viscosity and fork is back to life even at -5 degrees C.
5. If you want to eek out the last bit then you might want to do something to a grabby rebound piston glide band. Easiest is to slit it diagonally and remove a ~0.5mm segment.

I suggest Slick Kick and Air Fluid for lubrication.
 
#3,684 ·
Kaptain Lurpak said:
I saw another place where they discussed this, and pointed out the fork had to be tilted to ensure the oil would not get into the negative air chamber when inflating.
How do you inflate to avoid this ?
Click to expand...
You don’t need more than 1ml and piston passage is protruding above its surface. Oil will never get into the aishaft if you will apply it carefully.
 
#3,685 ·
Sapkovskymtb said:
1. Remove the 17.5. You’ll have a good LSC range and you can always widen in by winding HSC in 1 click.
2. Sand rebound piston flat and use one shim with stock clamping shims. Rebound on this fork is better suited for heavier guys who run their airspring progressive. I personally have opened up piston ports and machined thinner 6x7mm (in place of stock 6x8mm) clamp washers from steel but I am still experimenting.
Click to expand...
Do you know of instructions/diagrams for accessing the rebound stack? I didn't attempt it when I had the damper open as I wanted to focus on the compression stack.

Speaking of machining, have you considered modifying/replacing the HBO "cup"? While I haven't had an issue on my Mezzer, I would LOVE to reduce the distance/force of the HBO on my Mattoc.
 
#3,686 ·
Any suggestions for best practices/procedure when changing damper fluid? (I'm changing from Maxima 5wt to Motorex 2.5wt.) How thorough do you need to be with purging all the old fluid? Can I get away with draining the Maxima, adding some Motorex, draining again, and then adding & bleeding the Motorex?
 
#3,687 ·
The fluids will have similar properties and additive package, I wouldn't bother. Damper is likely to ingest more lower-leg oil than you'll have remaining Maxima 5wt fluid.

As for the HBO, I did consider for a second to put the cup on the lathe and trim it down a bit... Haven't got around doing it yet.
 
#3,688 · (Edited)
jester6578 said:
Do you know of instructions/diagrams for accessing the rebound stack? I didn't attempt it when I had the damper open as I wanted to focus on the compression stack.

Speaking of machining, have you considered modifying/replacing the HBO "cup"? While I haven't had an issue on my Mezzer, I would LOVE to reduce the distance/force of the HBO on my Mattoc.
Click to expand...
You’ll need to unthread the lower seal head. You can hold the tube with 16.3mm clamps or just wrap a long inner tube around it tightly and grip it with your palm.
To access shims use 5mm hex to unthread HBO piston. Use 8mm hex at shaft’s base to hold it.

As for reducing HBO, i’d like to hear more about your experience. Weight? Pressure? Settings? Style and preferences?

I find HBO unobtrusive and maybe even a bit lacking in most situations. My spring is set up relatively linear and soft for 90kg. I have a hard time thinking about HBO being any weaker, but I would approach it by enlarging some of the holes in its upper part. Even +0.5mm on a single hole can make a huge difference.

I do not see a point in reducing its “travel” unless your mezzer is like 120mm, but it is not very hard - just shorten your HBO piston from the threaded side and chase the thread deeper (you may need to carefully drill it deeper beforehand - just don’t ruin them threads).

Best way to change the fluid is a rebuild. You know how to disassemble compression side and rebound is even easier!
Flush and wipe everything down with mineral spirits and you will be good to go.
You can use syringes to flush a somewhat drained cartridge with mineral spirits - just remember to disassemble it and wipe down oil residue (let spirits evaporate also). This method is faster if you learn it because there will be a lot less residual oil inside.
 
#3,689 ·
jester6578 said:
Do you know of instructions/diagrams for accessing the rebound stack? I didn't attempt it when I had the damper open as I wanted to focus on the compression stack.

Speaking of machining, have you considered modifying/replacing the HBO "cup"? While I haven't had an issue on my Mezzer, I would LOVE to reduce the distance/force of the HBO on my Mattoc.
Click to expand...
Dougal's pick and mix instructions might help.

Be careful with the rebound cone, don't overtighten.

 
#3,692 ·
I installed the new 214 quad ring.....nice!!! I noticed a huge difference. Just pedaling and shifting body weight was noticeable.

Unfortunately it didn't fix the weird wheel hesitationl/falling feel when first pulling up. I changed a bunch of settings thinking that might lead me to the issue.....then never put them back for a "test" ride with the new ring. Even on the climb up small bump was enhanced nicely. I did a test run and was pleasantly surprised by the movement in the first part of compression. I was thinking I might need to add more air but forgot my pump. ....when I went to change hsc/lsc I realized they were way different.

HSC 3 from open
LSC 8 from open
it actually felt pretty good


usual settings---
weight 225
160mm
HSC 2 from open
LSC 6 from open
rebound 6 from closed
97/67
1.44 ratio

@Dougal has suggested that any ration 1.5 and lower doesn't really give the user full advantage of the forks air chambers. I tried a bunch of ratio's and pressures and ended up with these. My issue with the higher pressures was harshness....which some attributed to being the chambers equalizing.....once I got to these pressures the harshness was gone......but I'm still wondering about other options.
I really like how the fork rides high and I don't like the wallowy feel when I'm pedaling or the diving feeling when coming down a rock roll.

Any suggestions?
 
#3,693 ·
tomstir said:
HSC 3 from open
LSC 8 from open
it actually felt pretty good

@Dougal has suggested that any ration 1.5 and lower doesn't really give the user full advantage of the forks air chambers. I tried a bunch of ratio's and pressures and ended up with these. My issue with the higher pressures was harshness....which some attributed to being the chambers equalizing.....once I got to these pressures the harshness was gone......but I'm still wondering about other options.
I really like how the fork rides high and I don't like the wallowy feel when I'm pedaling or the diving feeling when coming down a rock roll.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Those are the situations LSC is designed for. Is there a reason you are running it so open?
 
#3,694 ·
Is there a post with a list of seals and "o" rings sizes for replacement? Like the quad ring suggestion of 215 to 214? The cap seal at irt looked like it had a hair coming off it.....I pulled it off/reused it but need some new ones. I looked at some notes I had written down (this thread and the other one have a ton of info......unfortunately I haven't read most of them) and a long with the 214 suggestion I thought the cap seal was a number 021? I went to my local hardware store and bought 2...for the damper side as well.. but when I pulled my for apart the new ones were way too small looking. They have I think #21 on the package. Where are you guys sourcing yours locally?
 
#3,696 ·
#3,697 ·
silentG said:
Manitou support is always helpful when I have asked about sizes.

I have had better longevity for Viton 214 quad vs Buna. With Buna I change when I do lower oil, Viton doesn't seem bothered by oil which make sense.

You can get bags of o-rings for not much $$$ - AS568-214 Buna-N 70 Durometer X-Rings [QR-214] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make getting O-Rings easy!
Click to expand...
On the front page it notes that the 214 quad rings should only be used in "warm climates". Have you had any experience with how they behave in variable temperatures. I've been debating trying it myself, but it might be in the 40's or 30's this time of year when I get out to ride.
 
#3,699 ·
I ride down in the 40F range in the winter in AZ. I haven't noticed anything unusual that I wouldn't chalk up to the temp (and me) being cold tbh.

Either not enough effect for me to notice or I'm a hack and can't/won't notice 😁

I'm also not running Supergliss as the lower/splash oil, using Motorex or sometimes a WPL/Torco mix there.
 
#3,700 ·
tomstir said:
I installed the new 214 quad ring.....nice!!! I noticed a huge difference. Just pedaling and shifting body weight was noticeable.

Unfortunately it didn't fix the weird wheel hesitationl/falling feel when first pulling up. I changed a bunch of settings thinking that might lead me to the issue.....then never put them back for a "test" ride with the new ring. Even on the climb up small bump was enhanced nicely. I did a test run and was pleasantly surprised by the movement in the first part of compression. I was thinking I might need to add more air but forgot my pump. ....when I went to change hsc/lsc I realized they were way different.

HSC 3 from open
LSC 8 from open
it actually felt pretty good


usual settings---
weight 225
160mm
HSC 2 from open
LSC 6 from open
rebound 6 from closed
97/67
1.44 ratio

@Dougal has suggested that any ration 1.5 and lower doesn't really give the user full advantage of the forks air chambers. I tried a bunch of ratio's and pressures and ended up with these. My issue with the higher pressures was harshness....which some attributed to being the chambers equalizing.....once I got to these pressures the harshness was gone......but I'm still wondering about other options.
I really like how the fork rides high and I don't like the wallowy feel when I'm pedaling or the diving feeling when coming down a rock roll.

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
I have a hard time understanding what this sensation even is. I had issues with fork not being lively enough and linear rebound tune fixed them for me.
Are you sure chassis are not binding? Maybe oil too thick if you are in colder region?

As for compression damping, maybe try maxing out LSC before engaging HSC?
 
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