Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Kavenz VHP16

Jump to Latest
107K views 838 replies 66 participants last post by  Jorgen  
E
#1 ·

Attachments

D
#530 ·
Currently on a V2 Druid MX and liking the high pivot action but have no "big bike" and considering a VHP16 MX for park and shuttle days as opposed to something like a Dread.

I have a backwards compatibility question, is it straightforward and cost effective to turn a V6 into a V7? I don't see a spare parts section on the Kavenz site, guessing you have to send them a parts request directly?
 
#532 ·
Yep, it seems a pretty straightforward process to go from V6 to V7. I looked into doing that for a while (before I found a V7 frame for sale used).

I got my first ride on the EXT E-Storia this weekend. First impressions are that it’s more sensitive than the Cane Creek Kitsuma DB I had on there before, and with faster rebound (IIRC the CC was at full fast rebound speed). I need more laps, but first impressions are good. The lockout lever is much harder to use than the Kitsuma, but I generally don't use that much anyway. The adjustments all needing a 12mm wrench or 4mm allen is also a bit annoying (Had a buddy 3print a tool for that that was easier to carry around). I need to fiddle more with the settings (I LSC and HSC confused, as they're not marked on the shock), but I do think as it is it was already smoother/more settled than the CC. While also being a smidge more poppy.

The E-storia is also very, very loud. The CC was totally silent, whereas the E-Storia is a loud "squelch" sound on every rebound. Its about 2-3x louder than the Lift damper that I have on the front (although a lower pitch noise than that. Its more of a "whoosh" than the lift, which is more of a "PSssh"). That said, when riding downhill, I can't hear it at all. Either I'm so focused that I tune it out, or maybe the wind noise/tire noises are covering it up.

Image


Also, the rear fender is working great. You can see how much mud the front fender is blocking on the downtube. And similarly, if you look above the idler, you can see how much cleaner that area is. It doesn't block everything. But it seems to be helping keep a lot of volume off the pivot bearings.

Image


Image
 
N
#534 ·
Has anyone tried running an STFU on their bike?
I think my XO1 clutch is wearing out a bit and am getting a fair bit of chain slap noise (more noticeable now I feel that I'm running an onyx hub instead of my usual dt350).
Also curious if 77 designz lower chain guide thing for transmission limits chain slap/movement, and if it's worth have yet another rotating part in the drivetrain.
 
#535 ·
n1cholasj said:
Has anyone tried running an STFU on their bike?
I think my XO1 clutch is wearing out a bit and am getting a fair bit of chain slap noise (more noticeable now I feel that I'm running an onyx hub instead of my usual dt350).
Also curious if 77 designz lower chain guide thing for transmission limits chain slap/movement, and if it's worth have yet another rotating part in the drivetrain.
Click to expand...
I hear that the lower chain guide helps a lot with retention, and silence. But I was worried about the extra maintenance/drag, and haven't gotten one yet.
 
J
#537 ·
Image


Sorry, have to post... so I actually won a AstonMtb comp and got a Rulezman Intend 170mm fork...!! Fekkin ace!
Met up with Aston in the south of France(I was already on a long-weekend vacation) to pick up.

Have only one ride on it yet. But, mounted the fork, went for a ride, and it felt really good. No clicks or airpressure-adjustment, just plugnplay.
Didnt hurt the looks of the bike, I think...although a BIT more blingy/circus than my "old" Ext.
 
K
#538 ·
n1cholasj said:
Has anyone tried running an STFU on their bike?
I think my XO1 clutch is wearing out a bit and am getting a fair bit of chain slap noise (more noticeable now I feel that I'm running an onyx hub instead of my usual dt350).
Also curious if 77 designz lower chain guide thing for transmission limits chain slap/movement, and if it's worth have yet another rotating part in the drivetrain.
Click to expand...
Jorgen said:
I have run the lower77 guide for about two months. Chain retention is great, and little to chainslap. With a properly lubed chain,seriouslyvery little drag. Surprisingly little I would say.
I mounted it for a trip where we climbed 3500m in 3 days riding,quite steep up and very steep down.
Was so quiet and smooth running I kept it for another month. You do notice it more when chain is dirty... but hey, I keep my drivetrain clean, so no issues.

For reguler riding I have taken it off now, not sure I even notice... changing between Exo+ and DD tires is more noticeable.

View attachment 2118253
Click to expand...
I agree with this. I really like the extra chain retention and minimized chain slap/noise. The added drag is minimal. Theres also a theory being tossed around in the Tech Rumours thread on Vital about how lower guides further reduce the chain forces on the suspension because it minimizes lower chain growth. And while I don’t think this change is night and day, I do think it exists and further benefits the rear ends ability to track the ground.
 
W
#539 ·
Hey, I’m getting a VHP15 or 16 (haven’t decided on the configuration yet, but I’m considering the 15 more). And I’m still on the search for a shock. As I want the bike to be a capable do it all bike, that’s not just ground hugging but also providing pop I’m looking into air shocks. The most obvious choice would be the X2 with the special tune and I would get it for a very reasonable 500€ directly from them. But I just can’t get over the kashima gold.
That’s why I’m looking into different shocks. I would prefer a more lightweight shock, as I will get a Coil shock eventually and then want to distinguishable configurations. So the Vivid is out. But from what I’ve gathered a larger air can would be preferable.

I’m currently stuck in my usual decision paralysis, so maybe you guys can help me out with some reports. (Maybe I should just suck it and go straight to a coil).
My current favourites would be (in this order):
  • Mara Pro PB Gen2. Really easy to work on, good setup ranges and possibilities. Though I’m a bit reluctant there. On the one hand I have read pretty positive stuff but I’m not sure about the compression tune. Is it light enough for the frame? I’m weighing around 70kg/154lbs. I’ve read from @zhendo that you’ve tested it rather extensively. What is your current take?
  • RS SuperDeluxe 2025 with the XL Air can. It’s pretty lightweight, has a usable range of settings and can be easily tuned, if I get the shims. But I’ve yet to find any reports on how wellt works with the Kavenz.
  • Formula Nebbia. I’m a bit of a formula fanboy, as I ride their selva fork. It’s just great and you can do everything at home. I’ve read mixed reviews on the nebbia air shock. The pros would be the ease of tuneability. But the spring seems kind of weird.
  • Öhlins ttx2 air. Seems like a great shock. But also not a lot of insights on its performance with the frame.
 
#544 ·
Weirdo1 said:
Hey, I’m getting a VHP15 or 16 (haven’t decided on the configuration yet, but I’m considering the 15 more). seems kind of weird.
Click to expand...
I have the shock mounts for the 15, 16 and 16MX. The 16 and 16MX are almost too low/slack for my local rocky trails ...too much fussing about pedal strikes. The actual number of strikes in not that great, but I feel like I do alter my riding to account for the possibility. The 15 eliminates that worry, but maybe too much so I just run the shock a bit more sagged. It's pretty easy and not too expensive to switch shock mounts.

I'm running the Intend-BC Hover Opt in all configurations (I have a stroke shortener for the 15 but have never used as the shock doesn't touch and my fork is set at 170. My original plan was to do an EXT Arma with the 180MX and a 180 fork but I honestly don't know if I need that now. I think the 160 with a 170 fork is all I will ever need, so I will like add an EXT Storia to the mix.
 
K
#540 ·
Weirdo1 said:
Hey, I’m getting a VHP15 or 16 (haven’t decided on the configuration yet, but I’m considering the 15 more). And I’m still on the search for a shock. As I want the bike to be a capable do it all bike, that’s not just ground hugging but also providing pop I’m looking into air shocks. The most obvious choice would be the X2 with the special tune and I would get it for a very reasonable 500€ directly from them. But I just can’t get over the kashima gold.
That’s why I’m looking into different shocks. I would prefer a more lightweight shock, as I will get a Coil shock eventually and then want to distinguishable configurations. So the Vivid is out. But from what I’ve gathered a larger air can would be preferable.

I’m currently stuck in my usual decision paralysis, so maybe you guys can help me out with some reports. (Maybe I should just suck it and go straight to a coil).
My current favourites would be (in this order):
  • Mara Pro PB Gen2. Really easy to work on, good setup ranges and possibilities. Though I’m a bit reluctant there. On the one hand I have read pretty positive stuff but I’m not sure about the compression tune. Is it light enough for the frame? I’m weighing around 70kg/154lbs. I’ve read from @zhendo that you’ve tested it rather extensively. What is your current take?
  • RS SuperDeluxe 2025 with the XL Air can. It’s pretty lightweight, has a usable range of settings and can be easily tuned, if I get the shims. But I’ve yet to find any reports on how wellt works with the Kavenz.
  • Formula Nebbia. I’m a bit of a formula fanboy, as I ride their selva fork. It’s just great and you can do everything at home. I’ve read mixed reviews on the nebbia air shock. The pros would be the ease of tuneability. But the spring seems kind of weird.
  • Öhlins ttx2 air. Seems like a great shock. But also not a lot of insights on its performance with the frame.
Click to expand...

I think most of the shocks you’ve listed will work well. Honestly I think most mid to high volume air shocks in general would work well for the kinematics of this bike because it’s a fairly normal curve, is fairly progressive, and the leverage ratio isn’t super high or low.

I’ll preface my reply with the fact that I haven’t ridden any of these shocks, or any air shocks at all in the last 5 years.

Out of the ones listed, I’d lean towards the Mara Pro PB (Zack’s review), and the Ohlins ttx2 air. Mostly because they likely offer more tuning options on the damper side of things, as well as more useable damping overall when compared to fox or rockshox. Although this may or may not work well at your weight in stock form. I have a couple riding buddies who really enjoy the ttx2 air on their 140-150mm travel bikes, but they are 190lbs+.

While I really want to like the Formula Nebbia, Zack’s review really outlines the issue with it trying to go a different route with the airspring design. Since you’re on the lighter end of things it might be less of an issue, but I’m still weary.

The rockshox SDU XL linear could be a great option as well, although there’s not a ton of reviews in general, nevermind on the VHP frame specifically.

Assuming you’re planning to buy the shocks from new, it might be worth reaching out to a shop that sells the Mara or ttx2, or contact the brands themselves and see what they have to say about the damper tunes for your weight and the VHP leverage curve.
 
Z
#541 ·
Thanks @kapolczer for the shout outs and links to the reviews, I'm fresh off of testing both the Mara Pro PB and Nebbia while also having lots of experience with a Super Deluxe Air with the Linear (not XL) can. I've ridden the Fox X2, Fox Float X, and Ohlins TTX1 and TTX2 air shocks, but none of them on the Kavenz.

@Weirdo1 a lot of this will come down to what sort of feeling you like, but if I was spending my money, I'd go with the Mara Pro PB or TTX2 Air. The Mara Pro PB has a solid amount of damping range, my only gripe being that I find Manitou to be a little too heavy-handed with rebound damping...though I like faster-than-average rebound and only weigh 165 lbs. Ohlins is still my gold standard as far as just how much support you can get out of them without introducing harshness, but at your weight you may find the damping to be more than you'd like, and servicing Ohlins stuff is more costly and less user friendly than Manitou. While I haven't tried the TTX2 Air on my VHP 16, I have no doubts about it working very well — I'm actually hoping to track one down soon to round out an air shock shootout that I might be working on a bit this winter...

I won't restate too much about the Nebbia, but I have a hard time recommending it because of that air spring. It's a solid damper with lots of range, plus its nicely made, but Formula needs to revisit their air spring design. The RockShox SDU with the Linear air can worked well for me on the Kavenz, but I still couldn't get the amount of compression damping I wanted without the shock starting to feel a bit harsh.

All that said, my favorite shock on the VHP 16 is the Ohlins TTX22m.2. With my preference for high levels of compression damping, the TTX22m.2 balances having a ton of support while still feeling very grippy and supple. It seems to use just the right amount of travel all the time, and aside from having a bit of a top out clunk at faster rebound speeds, it is entirely fuss-free to live with.
 
J
#543 ·
I would recommend to have a look at the 14 instead of the 15, I like the geo on the 14 better. A bit slacker, and only 5mm less travel.

Just a tip,should be more capable than the 15 given geo... and only 5mm less travel in the rear, while running a 160mm up front same as the 15...
 
K
#557 ·
damdam5 said:
From the Kavenz configuration page I was under the impression that the VHP16 used a 205x65 shock (are you running 180 travel in rear)? I am also wondering about the Mara Pro on a large frame as I read the prior post about it not fitting on a medium. Can you confirm the shock size discrepancy (230/235 stroke vs 205 on the website) and what fits on a large?

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Our dear friend @Donkeeboy is currently banned so I don’t think you’ll get a reply.

Based on his previous posts, I believe he would have been referring to 60mm vs 65mm shock strokes. IIRC, he was running a 205x60mm Mara pro gen1. He was able to run the long reservoir with 60mm stroke, but would have had to run the short reservoir if he wanted to run it at 65mm stroke.


damdam5 said:
Great, that's what I thought, thanks! Do you know when the piggy back got shorter, was that just this year?
Click to expand...
Regarding the new Gen 2 shocks that @zhendo mentioned. Those were updated this year (MY24). And in addition to the reservoir change, the airspring design also changed to a more traditional groove style to balance the positive and negative chambers (which seems to be a noticeable improvement).
 
D
#558 ·
kapolczer said:
Our dear friend @Donkeeboy is currently banned so I don’t think you’ll get a reply.

Based on his previous posts, I believe he would have been referring to 60mm vs 65mm shock strokes. IIRC, he was running a 205x60mm Mara pro gen1. He was able to run the long reservoir with 60mm stroke, but would have had to run the short reservoir if he wanted to run it at 65mm stroke.



Regarding the new Gen 2 shocks that @zhendo mentioned. Those were updated this year (MY24). And in addition to the reservoir change, the airspring design also changed to a more traditional groove style to balance the positive and negative chambers (which seems to be a noticeable improvement).
Click to expand...
Got it, thanks! I noticed its now called "Piggyback" as well. I saw a big sale at tree fort bikes that was almost 60% off but that looks to be Gen 1. From other reading about it, it sounds like the travel adjustment is quite involved and nothing like changing it on a manitou fork, which is a shame given how modular the Kavenz can be for changing out travel.
 
Y
#564 ·
Had mine for 2 years now and still getting along really well with it. The versatility of the bike has really shone through for me. In Australia, my locally trails aren't massively steep but I get to some bigger mountains for shuttle days a few times a year and it takes everything in its stride.

I've got it set up as a VHP16 mullet at the moment but ran it as full 29 for the first year of so. Also ran it as a VHP18 with 190mm forks for a while and had heaps of fun hitting more free ride and/or jumps trails.

I'm 190cm (6'3") and riding a standard XL. It's a little shorter than my previous couple of bikes (Sentinel and Nukeproof Mega) but I happy with the geo/sixing and found it worked particularly well on a recent 6 month stay in BC Canada where I ended up riding a lot of steep technical trails.
 
#569 ·
What is everyone’s understanding how custom Kavenz can do? I am short and want a VHP16. The stack is really tall for me and the reach a little long in size small. They advertised an XS but in MX that is limited to 140/140. However their website has semi custom for seat tube and head tube length. It implies reach too. There is also a page that says We continue to offer bespoke custom geometry, allowing you to tailor the reach, seat tube, and head tube metrics to your exact specifications.
 
W
#571 ·
They call it Semi-Custom and it only really comes into play for taller people. You can only customise the headtube and seattube. They also stated that they only really recommend their frame for people above 1,65m.
That’s why they started their xs project, which was actually pushed forward because of a guy from the German forum. The XS basically has a dent in the toptube so that it can get lower towards the shock, reducing standover. As well as the things you stated above.

How tall are you? I’m also quite short but don’t know if we’re comparable.
 
#574 ·
Build is complete! I think I am either going to have to find a 6mm offset chainring for the transmission cranks, or switch to my regular boost offset GX cranks. There is a fair bit of noise in the 50t and 42t with the idler spaced all the way out. Anyone else running the idler at 53.5mm with a non-transmission or shimano cassette?

I had ordered the 57.5mm stroke shock, but according to the serial number I got a 60mm. No big deal. Haven't looked inside to confirm, but that would put me at 150mm of travel with the VHP16/14 shock mounts. I also have some VHP15 Shock mounts to try. Specs as follows:

Kavenz VHP 15ish XL +20mm Dropouts
Fox 36 160mm
Fox Float X
Onyx Vesper Hubs
Stans Flow MK4 Rims
Sram X0 Drivetrain Mix
Hayes Dominion Brakes 200mm Rotors
Bike Yoke Revive Seatpost 213mm
Oneup 35mm Carbon Bars 780mm
Raceface Turbine Stem 40mm
Continental Kryptotal Fe Re Enduro Soft



Image
 

Attachments

L
#581 ·
You’re not physically changing the shock between configuration 1 and 2 you listed right? The only difference between them is where the bottom out point is, so the stroke from top out until each length shock bottoms out is exactly the same, the difference is that if you set the same sag percentage the two length shocks will have different spring stiffness, so if you just run a lower sag % (basically just pretend it has a shorter stroke when setting your sag), you can make configuration 1 ride identical to configuration 2 by just changing air pressure. Well identical until you’d bottom out with the actual config 2 having a harsh bottom out and the config 1 with less sag just extending into the extra travel.
 
J
#582 ·
I run the Ext coil with 205x65, and the shorter stroke RS airshock is a 205x60(But I know this shock can have travelspacers removed or added, something I dont want to bother with)... so yes, I run different stroke, different shocks.

I run about 30% sag on both, but not the same mm, as they have different total stroke lengths.

In your world you run a "virtual" bottomout point, based on less sag.
 
#584 ·
I went on my first ride yesterday, and WOW. This is the first bike I have had with a reasonable rear center length for my height, and the amount of front end grip is amazing. Way better than my previous 2021 S5 Stumpjumper. The suspension is also a great ride. Supportive and bottomless feeling, with a decent amount of pop for a long travel bike. I am also amazed at how well it pedals. Very little bob while seated. I set a few downhill Strava PR's not even trying.

I also opened up the rear shock and it looks like Kavenz did add an additional travel spacer compared to what fox had initially put in the shock. I like to have some bottom out protection, so I took all the spacers out but am running sag as if the bike were at 150mm, instead of 160mm.

Thank you to Logan and Kiki for talking me into buying the frame!
 
W
#587 ·
Image


I finished my bike yesterday. It’s currently a 440 reach VHP15. Some details on the spec I’ve went for:
  • Formula Selva S Fork
  • Manitou Mara Pro PB Shock (with the new air spring design)
  • Hayes Dominion Brakes
  • Custom Wheels Syntace W33i rims on Erase Hubs
  • Michelin Wild Enduro MS + Rear Tyres
  • Shimano Mix for shifting
  • Oneup dropper
  • contact points are a mix of SQLab, Ergon and hope clipless pedals

It weighs roughly 15,6kg and is lighter than my previous Banshee Phantom. Which is no surprise as I ran a coil shock there.

First little run was nice. Although I can’t say too much as I was sick and it was the first run since that. So I felt slow.
But I didn’t notice any increased drag. The bike feels incredibly settled. And compared to the Phantom it’s far more composed. But that’s also no surprise and a rather irrelevant comparison.
What I did notice, is that on the uphill, leaving the shock open actually has a benefit. Where the banshee got more wallowy but didn’t really provide more traction, the Kavenz stays rather calm and efficient but the traction increases and it feels more efficient on slippery terrain.
 
J
#588 ·
Weirdo1 said:
View attachment 2123123

I finished my bike yesterday. It’s currently a 440 reach VHP15. Some details on the spec I’ve went for:
  • Formula Selva S Fork
  • Manitou Mara Pro PB Shock (with the new air spring design)
  • Hayes Dominion Brakes
  • Custom Wheels Syntace W33i rims on Erase Hubs
  • Michelin Wild Enduro MS + Rear Tyres
  • Shimano Mix for shifting
  • Oneup dropper
  • contact points are a mix of SQLab, Ergon and hope clipless pedals

It weighs roughly 15,6kg and is lighter than my previous Banshee Phantom. Which is no surprise as I ran a coil shock there.

First little run was nice. Although I can’t say too much as I was sick and it was the first run since that. So I felt slow.
But I didn’t notice any increased drag. The bike feels incredibly settled. And compared to the Phantom it’s far more composed. But that’s also no surprise and a rather irrelevant comparison.
What I did notice, is that on the uphill, leaving the shock open actually has a benefit. Where the banshee got more wallowy but didn’t really provide more traction, the Kavenz stays rather calm and efficient but the traction increases and it feels more efficient on slippery terrain.
Click to expand...
Mind if I ask how tall you are? Were you on a medium Phantom before?
 
Mountain Bike Reviews Forum
posts
16M
members
534K
Since
1990
A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Discussion Downhill - Freeride California - Norcal Shocks and Suspension Passion