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Shimano Alfine 8 Shifter troubles

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jonnieoh

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
So, I purchased a Cannondale Bad Boy 1 urban commuter bike last spring, and use it to ride to work in the city and back, (when I'm not out mountain biking, of course...). I love the bike, and the unique no-muss, no-fuss Gates Carbon Belt Drive, that is silent and pretty-much maintenance free. The Shimano Alfine 8-speed internally-geared hub is neat, (but a bit heavy), and aids in keeping the overall bike stealthy and low-profile.

The problem is the Shimano Alfine rapidfire-style shifter on the handlebars. When I try to shift to an easier gear when a hill is approaching, I have difficulty getting it to shift. The thumb lever, (the lower one, that is closer to my chest, that is), has trouble "catching" or grabbing the actual gear-changing mechanism inside the shifter. It's like the situation in the movies if someone cuts your brake lines on your car, and your foot goes easily right to the floor, with no resistance.

I have learned that I can continue to actually shift to an easier gear, but only if I push and hold the thumb lever UP first, and then push forward. (See my drawing for detail). It then grabs some gears' teeth or something inside, and will complete the shift...

It is annoying, to say the least. No, I haven't taken it to the bike shop to be repaired yet, which I know I should do, but I'm not sure the guys there have much experience with this drivetrain. So I just wanted to see if anyone here had any similar experiences with the Shimano Alfine 8 shifter. If any of you have this kind of setup on one of your many bikes, I'd love some of your thoughts.

(Incidentally, the farther lever for shifting into a harder gear, like when you're going down a hill, always works just fine, FYI)...

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#2 ·
Weirdness...I rode Shimano 8 speed IGH hubs for years and never ran into that issue. Sorry, can't be of any real help. From the description, I'd suspect your shifter needs replacement...
 
#3 ·
I rode an Afline 8 for years, but I used a Nexus twist shifter. Never had a problem with shifting unless the mechanism down at the hub got all goobered up with muck, but not like you describe. My guess is that you just need a new shifter.


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#5 ·
This sounds exactly like what I experienced with my Shimano 9 speed LX M570 shifters, many years ago. The engagement pawl would get gummy from old/dirty grease, and the pawl spring would be too weak to move it.

You would need to open up the shifter, and that probably means disconnecting the shift cable from the hub, at the very least. You have to have the shifter in the position where it has released all the cable. You only need to get the cover off enough so that you can see the pawl and try to wiggle it with a pick or small screw driver. See how sticky it is.

Remedy that worked for me is: a small, SINGLE drop of WD-40, wiggle wiggle wiggle, let it sit for like 10 mins while wiggling occasionally. Then, a small SINGLE drop of Tri-Flow chain lube. Wiggle it some more, close it up, reinstall.

You can do this as needed, until the pawl actually wears out or something else breaks. Or you get super annoyed with it.
 
#6 ·
titaniumsprucemoose said:
The engagement pawl would get gummy from old/dirty grease, and the pawl spring would be too weak to move it.
Click to expand...
That's what I wonder here, too.

titaniumsprucemoose said:
You would need to open up the shifter, and that probably means disconnecting the shift cable from the hub, at the very least. You have to have the shifter in the position where it has released all the cable. You only need to get the cover off enough so that you can see the pawl and try to wiggle it with a pick or small screw driver. See how sticky it is.

Remedy that worked for me is: a small, SINGLE drop of WD-40, wiggle wiggle wiggle, let it sit for like 10 mins while wiggling occasionally. Then, a small SINGLE drop of Tri-Flow chain lube. Wiggle it some more, close it up, reinstall.

You can do this as needed, until the pawl actually wears out or something else breaks. Or you get super annoyed with it.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't use WD-40 or Triflow in shifters. They don't provide proper and lasting lubrication and need to be reapplied frequently.

If one is into it, it is not too difficult to completely disassemble and reassemble shifters. I have used Slickoleum before for reassembly, but most NGLI 1-1.5 greases will probably do.
This Youtuber has an amazing collection of shifter videos. I didn't see the IGH shifter, but it gives an idea what one is facing. Without a video, taking photos of every step during disassembly will probably be extremely useful later.
www.youtube.com

ATBOY

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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#7 ·
Shimano's IGH are extra finky with cable adjustment too , you probably checked that but be sure that the yellow dots are aligned perfectly.

I have that exact same bike!
 
#8 ·
fokof said:
Shimano's IGH are extra finky with cable adjustment too
Click to expand...
No, they aren't.

Those are made for neglected city bikes in adverse weather conditions.
 
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#10 ·
I'm in agreement with titaniumsprucemoose.
Gummed up old grease. I've had the same problem with other shifters before. TriFlow seems to work the best to free them up and keep them working.
My Alfine 8 shifter is doing the same thing but hasn't had the TriFlow treatment yet. I keep forgetting because I've gotten used to having to push up to shift and it's a commuter bike so it's less annoying than it would be on one of my mountain bikes.
 
#11 ·
Surestick Malone said:
Gummed up old grease. [...] TriFlow seems to work the best to free them up and keep them working.
Click to expand...
Trigger shifters are meant to be greased, not oiled, in particular not with low viscosity fluids. The lubrication with oil won't last long.
 
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#12 · (Edited)
lefthanded said:
Trigger shifters are meant to be greased, not oiled, in particular not with low viscosity fluids. The lubrication with oil won't last long.
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I haven't had an issue with ones I've done years ago so the proof is in the pudding.
Either the liquid lube adds some life back to the dried up grease, or, more likely, given the relatively well-sealed and fairly intermittent use shifters see light oils have no problems lubing shifters for a long time.
For all we know Shimano uses grease because it's easier and cleaner to apply in the manufacturing setting.


IMHO, saying shifters are "meant" to use a certain lube is a bit baseless. In a lot of cases the choice of lube depends a lot on use case and how frequent the maintenance the user is comfortable with.
Looking inside Shimano shifters there's nothing that's really under high stress or pressure. You'd probably be okay with anything from a dry PTFE lube, a liquid lube, or a light grease. The only thing I can see not working well is a wax lube as the smaller parts like the pawls on the ratcheting mechanism don't look like they have enough force behind them to break though the initial dry wax and move freely.

There are definitely parts in the bike industry that benefit from a different lube than spec'd if the user wants to shift the compromise slider one way or the other (Alfine hubs using oil baths when they originally used grease, I've seen race mechanics lube sealed bearing with oil instead of grease for a bit less resistance during a race run, chains come greased yet we use everything from solid wax to light oils on them, Shimano seems to sometimes use grease on cables but for the most part they're run dry).
 
#13 ·
Surestick Malone said:
For all we know Shimano uses grease because it's easier and cleaner to apply in the manufacturing setting.
Click to expand...
Who is "we"?

Surestick Malone said:
IMHO, saying shifters are "meant" to use a certain lube is a bit baseless.
Click to expand...
Well, if they come from the factory, and as far as I know, always have, with grease, it's probably fair so they have been intended and engineered to be use with grease.

Surestick Malone said:
In a lot of cases the choice of lube depends a lot on use case and how frequent the maintenance the user is comfortable with.
Click to expand...
Grease in Shimano shifters typically is absolutely maintenance free for about 2 decades before it gums up, and then you probably still have a few more years until it causes an actual problem. At least in the environments I know.
How frequent would you need to reapply oil? And where is the oil ending up when heat and gravity have worked on it?


Surestick Malone said:
There are definitely parts in the bike industry that benefit from a different lube than spec'd if the user wants to shift the compromise slider one way or the other (Alfine hubs using oil baths when they originally used grease, I've seen race mechanics lube sealed bearing with oil instead of grease for a bit less resistance during a race run,
Click to expand...
The Alfine and Inter 8 services have been changed to oil baths because it's a lot easier and quicker to simply dunk the gears into the container than to reapply grease everywhere. The base is still grease, and the oil bath is meant to kinda refresh the grease. One shouldn't run these hubs without grease and only oil.
Maybe oil runs with less resistance, but oil is inferior in hubs, unless there is a bath inside the hub like in the 11 speed model.
 
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#15 · (Edited)
J.B. Weld said:
Wrong again, I fix newer ones than that every day.
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Yeah, and how many you sold don't you need to fix?

J.B. Weld said:
They can fail in a few years but they are very easy to fix.
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Are we talking Sram or Shimano here?
Failing after few years? Maybe in that case what they make recently is utter crap.

I have 25 year old XT STIs, that are just starting to be a little slow. I have one of the first gen Dura Ace STIs that works flawless and has never seen any lube than what it came with. Also only last year needed a mid 90's 105 STI on of my bikes to be freed from gummed up grease and regreased.

That said, I did notice that in a pair of 10 year old Sram X9 shifters the grease didn't hold up well and needed to be replaced.
 
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#18 ·
Frankly, this is ridiculous.

Shimano's own service methodology is to remove the shifter, dunk in degreaser, and lubricate with mid-weight oil, if it fails to engage consistently.

The lubricating property of oil lies in its ability to cling to surfaces/be held in place by capillary force. You cannot remove it just by sitting it in a hot area and leaving it. Some may move, but you don't need a "bath" to oil lubricate something. Check out sewing machines, for instance...
 
#19 · (Edited)
wschruba said:
Shimano's own service methodology is to remove the shifter, dunk in degreaser, and lubricate with mid-weight oil, if it fails to engage consistently.
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Can you share that manual?
I'm not questioning and neither suprised, just curious if that's "official". Of course Shimano will not recommend taking the shifter apart for manual application of grease. That labor cost in a shop would be unreasonable. If oil were the best lubrication, they'd come from the factory with oil.

wschruba said:
You cannot remove it just by sitting it in a hot area and leaving it. Some may move, but you don't need a "bath" to oil lubricate something.
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You got me wrong. I didn't say it's removed. But a portion of it will slowly flow out of the shifter housing and leave a mess in the outside.

wschruba said:
Check out sewing machines, for instance...
Click to expand...
Sewing machines are quite different from shifters from a lubrication point of view. Also, they need frequent oiling if used frequently - those that can and need to be oiled.
 
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