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#21 ·
Glenngineer said:
Those short cranks are definitely helping you in the dropper length equation...an often overlooked factor.
Click to expand...
Yah, I think with 160+ crank lengths, I'd have had to slam the seat post to fit the 210 dropper, and maybe even shim the post to 200 or 190 to fit, which would still work with this bike.

But given the shorter cranks I got, I've ended up needing to raise the post approx 10mm from slammed to achieve the right pedaling position.

All this to say, is that this frame allows for an incredibly long dropper post. I've always wanted a longer dropper post, and remember having a size small wreckoning several years ago, where even with a size small frame, the included 125mm dropper post put me at too tall a pedaling position, so I always had to climb with the post slightly dropped.

While riding, this 210 dropper has allowed me to corner so much better and get into a much lower/aggresive position, and to lift the bike higher while hopping, etc. Going back to my old bike's 150mm dropper post feels totally inadequate now, so I fear I've been ruined for that size dropper.

The only thing I'll need to adjust to, is that on steeper trails, it's now so much easier for me to get back enough that my back tire has buzzed my butt on a couple slow/chunky/steep sections. I've never expereinced this on a 27.5 rear wheel, only on 29ers, and I imagine is more of a skill/body positioning issue than anything. (at least I hope so, since I don't know if this bike could handle a 26/29 wheel setup)

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#22 ·
knollybikes.com said:
Absolutely 100% you can do this.

While we aren't advertising this ability right off the bat (just confuses the product launch message too much), the Warden is absolutely designed to be able to run a dual 27.5" setup. In fact, some of us (including myself) are doing this for our kids for park bikes.

We are stocking the Wolftooth 10mm lower extended headset (in stock) and this helps to offset the geo differences between the 29 and 27.5" front end.
Geo will change very slightly, with the front end getting about 0.5 - 0.75 degrees steeper, but if you're looking at a Small or X-Small frame, you can also use the geometry adjustment to put the frame in slack mode, run short cranks (like 160-165) and have a wicked bike that is full travel, park ridable! If your child is tall enough, you can also consider using a 10mm longer travel fork as well, to also help tweak geometry.

The Warden is already plenty slack, so a dual 27.5" with a 170mm fork will still have head angles of around 64.5 / 63.75 (assuming you're using the 10mm extension lower headset cup). 180mm fork will slacken that out by another 0.5 degrees.

Feel free to reach out to us via our info@... account or any of our dealers who would be stoked to answer any questions on this bike. I'll do my best to follow the MTBR threads as well :)
Click to expand...
Is there any issue with using 10 mm crown race spacer instead (Reverse Components)? Or would it be any issue with using 180 mm travel 29 fork with 27.5 wheels?
I would like to be able to switch between 27.5 and 29 front wheels.
 
#23 ·
KWJP said:
Is there any issue with using 10 mm crown race spacer instead (Reverse Components)? Or would it be any issue with using 180 mm travel 29 fork with 27.5 wheels?
I would like to be able to switch between 27.5 and 29 front wheels.
Click to expand...
To keep the geometry as close as possible to the MX setup, we woudl recommend both a 10mm lower headset cup extension and a 180mm single crown fork for dual 27.5" setup. But ultimately, the geo works well for both setups and keeps BB height changes minimal between MX and Dual 27.5" setups.
 
#24 ·
knollybikes.com said:
To keep the geometry as close as possible to the MX setup, we woudl recommend both a 10mm lower headset cup extension and a 180mm single crown fork for dual 27.5" setup. But ultimately, the geo works well for both setups and keeps BB height changes minimal between MX and Dual 27.5" setups.
Click to expand...
Noel,

Thank you for the reply. I apologize for not being clear. I understand that the purpose is to keep the geo close enough between full 27.5 setup and MX setup. Since I have a spare 27.5 fork, I can switch to full 27.5 if I use a crown spacer with 27.5 180 fork. If I want to ride MX setup, I can swap to 29 170 fork. I was just wondering if there are any drawback for using a spacer instead of installing 10mm extension lower headset. It seems the end result is the same. It is much easier to change the fork than swapping the lower headset.
 
#25 ·
KWJP said:
Noel,

Thank you for the reply. I apologize for not being clear. I understand that the purpose is to keep the geo close enough between full 27.5 setup and MX setup. Since I have a spare 27.5 fork, I can switch to full 27.5 if I use a crown spacer with 27.5 180 fork. If I want to ride MX setup, I can swap to 29 170 fork. I was just wondering if there are any drawback for using a spacer instead of installing 10mm extension lower headset. It seems the end result is the same. It is much easier to change the fork than swapping the lower headset.
Click to expand...
Either option should be ok. We have used the extension cups a fair bit, but we're not regularly swapping forks. For that situation, using a spacer on the 27.5"fork seems like a good idea. However we have no personal experience with that set up though I know reputable vendors such as Cane Creek sell them.
 
#27 ·
Tomor said:
Yah, I think with 160+ crank lengths, I'd have had to slam the seat post to fit the 210 dropper, and maybe even shim the post to 200 or 190 to fit, which would still work with this bike.

But given the shorter cranks I got, I've ended up needing to raise the post approx 10mm from slammed to achieve the right pedaling position.

All this to say, is that this frame allows for an incredibly long dropper post. I've always wanted a longer dropper post, and remember having a size small wreckoning several years ago, where even with a size small frame, the included 125mm dropper post put me at too tall a pedaling position, so I always had to climb with the post slightly dropped.

While riding, this 210 dropper has allowed me to corner so much better and get into a much lower/aggresive position, and to lift the bike higher while hopping, etc. Going back to my old bike's 150mm dropper post feels totally inadequate now, so I fear I've been ruined for that size dropper.

The only thing I'll need to adjust to, is that on steeper trails, it's now so much easier for me to get back enough that my back tire has buzzed my butt on a couple slow/chunky/steep sections. I've never expereinced this on a 27.5 rear wheel, only on 29ers, and I imagine is more of a skill/body positioning issue than anything. (at least I hope so, since I don't know if this bike could handle a 26/29 wheel setup)

View attachment 2107235
Click to expand...
Tomor,

How much saddle clearance does your small Warden have when the rear wheel is in the full travel position? I used to own Revel Rail 27 in a small size. It was not able to accommodate the seat post being all the way down since the saddle was contacting the rear wheel when I was using full travel. The saddle had to be in a very forward and tilted forward. It was not ridable like that. So the post had to be in raised about a half inch.

Since you are the only one who has been riding new Warden on this forum, I really appreciate your insights, especially being the same frame size. Any more update on your riding experience you want to share?

ST
 
#28 ·
KWJP said:
Tomor,

How much saddle clearance does your small Warden have when the rear wheel is in the full travel position? I used to own Revel Rail 27 in a small size. It was not able to accommodate the seat post being all the way down since the saddle was contacting the rear wheel when I was using full travel. The saddle had to be in a very forward and tilted forward. It was not ridable like that. So the post had to be in raised about a half inch.

Since you are the only one who has been riding new Warden on this forum, I really appreciate your insights, especially being the same frame size. Any more update on your riding experience you want to share?

ST
Click to expand...
Plenty of room! This is a 210 Oneup Dropper post that's about 10mm from being slammed to the collar, but even then, I don't think the saddle would rub. And the saddle could be shifted slightly forward if somehow that even happened.
Image
Image
 
#29 ·
#30 ·
KWJP said:
Tomor,

How much saddle clearance does your small Warden have when the rear wheel is in the full travel position? I used to own Revel Rail 27 in a small size. It was not able to accommodate the seat post being all the way down since the saddle was contacting the rear wheel when I was using full travel. The saddle had to be in a very forward and tilted forward. It was not ridable like that. So the post had to be in raised about a half inch.

Since you are the only one who has been riding new Warden on this forum, I really appreciate your insights, especially being the same frame size. Any more update on your riding experience you want to share?

ST
Click to expand...
KWJP said:
Tomor,

How much saddle clearance does your small Warden have when the rear wheel is in the full travel position? I used to own Revel Rail 27 in a small size. It was not able to accommodate the seat post being all the way down since the saddle was contacting the rear wheel when I was using full travel. The saddle had to be in a very forward and tilted forward. It was not ridable like that. So the post had to be in raised about a half inch.

Since you are the only one who has been riding new Warden on this forum, I really appreciate your insights, especially being the same frame size. Any more update on your riding experience you want to share?

ST
Click to expand...
And in regard to more of my riding experience, I've continued to love the bike so far. I'm learning to commit to a more forward position while going down the steepest parts of the trail, and that's I think how the bike needs to be ridding. No more tire buzzes on the steep sections. All my steepest trails feel great and very confident on the Warden. On less steep trails, being able to have a 210 post is allowing me to lean the bike over with much more freedom than my previous bikes, so I've loved how the bike corners! But given I have this setup with 180/180 for travel, I'd be curious about how an Endorphin would feel on the flowier trails in my area like the flow trail at soquel demonstration forrest here in Santa Cruz.

I've still been messing with suspension settings and stack height etc. to really dial it in feel. I've softened up the rear compression/preload wise, so it's not pedaling quite as amazing as it originally was, but the traction is pretty amazing on techie sections and descending is so plush and smooth. For a "perfect" setup, I could probably benefit from going to a slightly heavier spring, but even with the more plush setup, I still dig it as a climber. I'm just more quick to flip the firm climb switch on fire roads or on asphalt.

Anywho, long story short I'm still tweaking, but I highly recommend the Warden
 
#32 ·
I'm 5'5 with a 28 inch inseam, so I have a long torso relative to short legs. As I'm smack dab in the middle of the height recommendation, I have a size small Warden.

The Warden sizing fits me really well where I don't feel cramped while descending, and I cannot emphasize how amazing it is to have the saddle so low and out of the way. I can get into such better body positioning for cornering, it's incredible. Most other bikes with this level reach have seat tubes at 420, with questionable insertion depth. The fact that this bike can have a 350 seat tube, with over 300 insertion depth, is 11/10 amazing. That gives you so much more room to shift your weight about, and place your weight where it's needed.

When I first got it, it even felt a little short and could've been longer so i was messing with longer stems and more spacers to lift the stack. But as I've gotten used it it, I really like the sizing as is, and have returned to a shorter stem. I think the sizing all comes down to intention. If you want a confidence inspiring big bike, this bike and it's length is amazing.

If you want a shorter boosty bike, then maybe you'd actually be more interested in the endorphin? I'm actually kind of curious to try one of those out with a 135/150 setup with a 36 out front. Different horses for different courses, etc.

Given the Endorphins intended purpose, the size small reach is shorter at 440, whereas for the intended purpose of the Warden, the longer 457 for size small seems more appropriate.
 
#33 · (Edited)
@Tomor @knollybikes.com Thank you for the detailed answers! I'm a fellow shorty as well and I exclusively look for mullet bikes. What terrains do you ride and what level are you at? I'm deciding between the new Ripmo, Bronson and Warden, but afraid the Warden might be too much bike for me. I ride blue and black flow trails with the occasional steep techs, love popping off features and generally silly low-consequence stuff. Demoed the Endo and while it's fun, the travels can get sketchy for North Shore when things get steep. I'm disappointed there's not a mullet inbetween the Endo and Warden, that'd be an instant buy for me ):
 
#34 ·
I live in Santa Cruz, CA, so we have a ton of trails of mixed variety. I'm more of an intermediate level rider, been riding for about 8 years here now. I currently have my Warden setup as a 180/180 bike with a coil that makes it very plush. Knolly doesn't advertise it, but they approve of messing with the stroke length of a DHX2 so you can turn the bike from 170 up to 180, or down to 165, depending on what stroke length spacers you have in the shock.

I'm about to swap in a stiffer coil to get a more firm suspension feel. to see how that works, and may mess around with shortening the stroke length too to experiment and see how it feels at different travel lengths. With steepier or rowdier trails, it's hard to beat the warden, but I can see how maybe you'd want that middle ground mullet if you were only riding greens and blues, etc.

For me, the bronson is out due to their interupted seat tube design to allow the shock to pass through. I'm not even sure if I could even get a 150 dropper post into that thing. And after experiencing 210, I'm not sure I could go back. And as for the old ripmo, it had the great straight seat tube, but was only a 29er, and now that it's possible to be a mullet, they now have that damn seat tube kink which prevents long droppers as well. Also, I'm not sure if the ripmo is the same, but when I demo'd a medium ripley, and slammed the seat post all the way down, the tire definintely buzzed the seat when going through it's travel, which is a very not ideal situation.

I cannot emphasize enough how rad it is to have such a long dropper on a size small bike. Even on mellower trails, it allows me to move around way more, and I'd pick that over a bronson/ripmo and be potentially overbiked any day. You can always tune suspension to be stiffer and/or with more compression if you want that more supported poppy feel.
 
#35 ·
freedayff said:
@Tomor @knollybikes.com Thank you for the detailed answers! I'm a fellow shorty as well and I exclusively look for mullet bikes. What terrains do you ride and what level are you at? I'm deciding between the new Ripmo, Bronson and Warden, but afraid the Warden might be too much bike for me. I ride blue and black flow trails with the occasional steep techs, love popping off features and generally silly low-consequence stuff. Demoed the Endo and while it's fun, the travels can get sketchy for North Shore when things get steep. I'm disappointed there's not a mullet inbetween the Endo and Warden, that'd be an instant buy for me ):
Click to expand...
Putting a bike in the lineup between the Endorphin and the Warden seems like it’s trying to slice things pretty fine.
 
#37 ·
Tomor said:
Yah true. A 150 or 160 forked endorphin would prob close the gap pretty good. Just go with the Warden tho, you won’t regret it!
Click to expand...
Endorphin rear travel ranges between 135mm (50mm stroke shock) and 150mm (55mm stroke shock).

Forks can be:

27.5" 150-170mm with 160mm the sweet spot.
29" 140-150mm, depending upon what type of chassis you want.

Cheers,
 
#38 ·
I just finished my Warden small. The color (blueberry) is absolutely beautiful. I always have been a big fun of aluminum raw, but Knolly has been producing amazing color choices since G5s.

I have been riding G6 Endo for last month or so. I actually had it since early season, but I was riding G5 medium Chili mostly. Once I started to ride Endo, I was immediately reminded how a smaller size and shorter chain stay make the bike so much more playful. It was more than I thought it would...

I have my Endo like Noel has, 150 mm 29 up front and 150 in the back. I was originally supposed to get G6 Fugitive, but I ended up getting Endo. There are certain things I miss from Fugitive, but the playfulness of Endo seems to outweigh whatever I am missing. I would say one thing I miss the most is the pedal efficiency. Although Endo is not bad to pedal, full 29er and more supportive platform definitely make Fugitive pedal better. That being said, it is expected to be less efficient with 150 mm travel with 27.5 on the rear. What I love about Endo is how playful it is, yet it is still very capable. If you want to have a fun with a bike, this is the one.

I have not ridden my new Warden on a proper trail yet, but it definitely reminded me how nice it is to my body when I was doing a few decent drops or even doing some J hops. With Endo, I had to be precise with my body and bike position for a bigger hits. Otherwise, it is pretty harsh landing. On Warden, it is almost none issue regardless... What a difference. It really feels it is a proper bike for parks/freeride and big hits. Although the bike is significantly longer than my small Endo, I feel that I still have descent leverage against the bike to make it playful enough. I did not feel awkward at all. I think Knolly does excellent job with intuitiveness of their bikes. All Knollys I rode so far has been very intuitive. As for climbing, I am not sure at the moment as I have not really done proper trail riding at all. That being said, I did not get this frame for pedaling. That is what Endo is for me. So, for my intended purpose for Warden, I do not care about the weight nor pedaling efficiency, at least right now.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Clyde Ride said:
Putting a bike in the lineup between the Endorphin and the Warden seems like it’s trying to slice things pretty fine.
Click to expand...
True, but the bike I want 95% of the time is a 160/150 MX bike with geometry somewhere in between the Endo / Warden. The Endorphin MX with a 140 fork is undergunned, and the Warden MX with a 170 fork and 62.5* HA / 1,310mm WB is too much. An Endorphin with a 160 fork and long-stroked to 150 rear travel would basically fit the bill, but iirc Noel has recommended against a fork >150 as he says even overforking the MX to 150 begins to compromise the geometry.

My solution has been to run a mullet Fugitive with a 160 38 and a Fox DHX2 with the CC MX eyelet to somewhat geo correct for the small back wheel. It's 160/~145 travel, ~64* HA, and is a lot of fun. Plus, the ability to pop a 29" back wheel in if I have a big pedal or want to go fast is nice. However, the the bb is too low (even with geo in steep position) as it's not designed to be MX. Need to be very aware of my pedals at all times - lots of pedal strikes when climbing technical terrain and scary to pedal while descending. I'd also prefer an air shock, but stuck on coil for the eyelet extender.

Knolly nailed the new generation of frames though - new Fugi feels like a nice blend of my v1 Fugitive and v1 Chilcotin. The overall changes (longer head tube, shorter seat tube, longer chainstays, etc.) & upgrades (bearings all round, additional bottle bosses, etc.) are great. I would very happily have this as my only bike if the bb was higher and I could use an air shock. Worth noting it's a bit of a pig though...just weighed at ~38lbs, albeit with a burly build (38 fork, coil shock, DD casings, no carbon, etc.)

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#40 ·
Has anyone around 6'1 tried sizing down to an S3 Warden?

The reach / chainstay / wheelbase of an S4 is a bit long for my taste, but an S3 with a 160 fork seems like it would be pretty perfect.

My concern is the steep STA making the cockpit too short while pedaling seated, as the ETT is 25mm shorter than my Fugitive (posted above).

Would appreciate any insight!
 
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