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Has Surly Lost It's Mojo?

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#361 ·
I'm a big dude too... one thing we have to face is that when we're almost 2x the weight of the typical customer, we can't cheap out. Most bikes in the rigid 29er space top out at 130kg supported max 'system' weight including the bike, and that's about 285 pounds.

Because of safety margins, you'll be fine with a bike like that for the style of riding you're talking about. If you push it beyond that point, you'll most likely start breaking spokes - and if that starts happens over and over, then you're looking at hand-built heavy-duty wheels from a good local builder.

The Ogre is a good bet. You're looking at bikes around the Ogre price or more - steel, rigid, through axles are the features I'd aim for as a baseline.
 
#362 ·
schnee said:
I'm a big dude too... one thing we have to face is that when we're almost 2x the weight of the typical customer, we can't cheap out. Most bikes in the rigid 29er space top out at 130kg supported max 'system' weight including the bike, and that's about 285 pounds.

Because of safety margins, you'll be fine with a bike like that for the style of riding you're talking about. If you push it beyond that point, you'll most likely start breaking spokes - and if that starts happens over and over, then you're looking at hand-built heavy-duty wheels from a good local builder.

The Ogre is a good bet. You're looking at bikes around the Ogre price or more - steel, rigid, through axles are the features I'd aim for as a baseline.
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All good points. The thing I'd stress is the need for a good wheelset. Most bike companies will make a really good frame and then cheap out on the wheelset. I'm sure the Ogre complete's wheelset is adequate, but over the long run, you need good wheels. Check out DT Swiss HU 1900 spline. The HU stands for Hybrid Utility, hybrid meaning pedal assist eBike, so it's for urban and cargo eBikes and can take up to 180 kgs or 397lbs of weight. Go to Bike24, bike-discount.dr, bike-components.de or any of the online Euro retailers and buy a DT Swiss HU 1900 spline QR hub front wheel and a boost hub rear wheel separately for an Ogre (both Boost and QR wheelsets are available, but as discussed above in the context of lost mojo, the Ogre has a boost-compatible rear with a QR-compatible fork, although you could run QR on the rear with the Surly washers).
 
#364 ·
Anyone else see this? Surly ready to stick it to the MTBR forums once and for all, and regain their mojo decisively? Lots of rumors flying, but "biggest" thing and "something BIG is landing" do sort of point to some sort of revamped Moonlander. The pessimists are predicting an eBike Moonlander, the optimists are predicting a 36x2.75 tire, and no one can stop mentioning a pinion drive (those things are freaking awesome). So we shall see what's announced next Monday (and hits the shop floors on the 3rd of September?).

Anyone got any theories?

Image
 
#365 ·
PDKL45 said:
Anyone else see this? Surly ready to stick it to the MTBR forums once and for all, and regain their mojo decisively? Lots of rumors flying, but "biggest" thing and "something BIG is landing" do sort of point to some sort of revamped Moonlander. The pessimists are predicting an eBike Moonlander, the optimists are predicting a 36x2.75 tire, and no one can stop mentioning a pinion drive (those things are freaking awesome). So we shall see what's announced next Monday (and hits the shop floors on the 3rd of September?).

Anyone got any theories?

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750D Cross Check or something like that. i can't see the demand for a fat bike... fat bikes are effectively dead.
 
#366 ·
tedmasta said:
750D Cross Check or something like that. i can't see the demand for a fat bike... fat bikes are effectively dead.
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I'd forgotten about 750D. Just looked it up to refresh my memory and WTB made a tire, so there's tooling for it. It would make a lot more sense than a 36" bike, in terms of general rider size, that is (and I'm not dissing 36" wheels which obviously have their place). But a relatively light Cross-Check-Straggler-esque CX type do it all bike with 750D in L, XL, and XXL and 700C in XS, S, and M might be awesome, and genuinely mojo boosting, like a Krampus or a Pugs.
 
#367 ·
Facebook says it'll be a 24x6.2 tired Moonlander with a pinion gearbox. Not sure I believe that, 24x6 is an OLD rumor, and I don't think QBP has a relationship with Pinion. Box would be the tires is my guess...there are other pictures of bike boxes going around, so announcement is more than a part of accessory.

Personally, an ultimate floatation bike is pretty appealing, but despite being a bigger guy I am Q factor sensitive...I can't imagine a wider Q/stance than my ICT, and with 155mm tire even a pinion solution would likely be forced wider by the crazy chain line.
 
#368 · (Edited)
Glenngineer said:
Facebook says it'll be a 24x6.2 tired Moonlander with a pinion gearbox. Not sure I believe that, 24x6 is an OLD rumor, and I don't think QBP has a relationship with Pinion. Box would be the tires is my guess...there are other pictures of bike boxes going around, so announcement is more than a part of accessory.

Personally, an ultimate floatation bike is pretty appealing, but despite being a bigger guy I am Q factor sensitive...I can't imagine a wider Q/stance than my ICT, and with 155mm tire even a pinion solution would likely be forced wider by the crazy chain line.
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I saw that, a 24x6.2 tired Moonlander. The Moonlander was offset like the pugs, so you can sort of see how, if they really went hog on the offset, they might be able to shoehorn that tire in there with a pinion drive and maintain a reasonable Q factor.

Interestingly enough, the topic was discussed right here on MTBR about 15 months ago. 15 months ago is sort of relevant, in that they would have had a prototype floating around, because production would have had to have been starting right around that time for finished, boxed bikes in summer 2024. You could probably run the tires at like, 7-10 psi, and you wouldn't really really need groomed trails, it might just float over certain types of snow, and there are definitely coastal and wetlands applications. I wonder...
 
#369 ·
There was a time when Surly didn’t make things for the masses.
but it’s been a while.
Nowadays it’s just another gravel or adventure rig. Drop bar wide tire.
Like a Stargazer.

so- before we make specific guesses…
What do you think? Will it be for the masses?
A drop bar with 2.4 tires?

Or will it be for some obscure niche? Not much more obscure than a fat bike pinion in an even weirder wheel size.

My guess is that they’re going safe.
One more gravel adventure any/all road endurance bike that would look good with a Brooks saddle and leather bar tape. Covered in barnacles.
 
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#370 · (Edited)
Johnny Chicken Bones said:
There was a time when Surly didn’t make things for the masses.
but it’s been a while.
Nowadays it’s just another gravel or adventure rig. Drop bar wide tire.
Like a Stargazer.

so- before we make specific guesses…
What do you think? Will it be for the masses?
A drop bar with 2.4 tires?

Or will it be for some obscure niche? Not much more obscure than a fat bike pinion in an even weirder wheel size.

My guess is that they’re going safe.
One more gravel adventure any/all road endurance bike that would look good with a Brooks saddle and leather bar tape. Covered in barnacles.
Click to expand...
I would argue that it's actually the lack of barnacles on some newer offerings like the Preamble and BC that has cost them some mojo in a lot of ways, but I digress.

I think it's make or break time at Surly and I think they'll go for make.

I say awesome new obscure niche bike that will define an entire new category of bikes within the industry, perhaps inspiring other, perhaps more refined offerings within the same category in 2025-2026. Even if it doesn't inspire other bikes like it, it would be a downright mojo enhancing move. Getting back to where they once were, with new wheel sizes, new tires etc.

I think it's the 24x6.2 tire pinion Moonlander.

Imagine if someone had seen an eBike motor on a prototype and mistaken it for a pinion gearbox, though?
 
#372 ·
I dont think a new fat tire size will make them, as someone else said. Fat is dead. Or at least limping along. I ride fat plenty all winter, but there aren’t many others doing it. Not in my small Colorado mountain town. Maybe there are nooks of Minnesota or Alaska where it’s flourishing. But not here. And given how many companites have dropped their fat line up- it doesn’t look like a money maker for anyone.
E-bikes and low low temps sure don’t play together well. But E does seem to be one part of the industry that’s really growing.

There is a new heartbeat in Ti. More write ups about them. More of the new geometry down country modern hardtail. Long, low, slack and all that.

So-Hell, I don’t know. I hope it’s something unique and weird. Something none of us have guessed.
But I won’t be holding my breath for something amazing.
Hype Is easy to find.
Innovation less so.
 
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#373 ·
"Make" as in restore mojo, who knows what will happen financially. Plus, Ti is a Salsa thing, it would be a seismic shift to see Surly move away from 4130 Natch. That Ti bike may as well be the beautiful but seldom seen Ti Fargo.

Still, go listen to that podcast in the link I dropped above, I hadn't heard it when I made the comment, either. But the guy behind Meriweather cycles also mentions the offset associated with the Moonlander, and you understand where the 24x6.2 rumor comes from. They mention NorCal, the midwest and Alaska; fat may not be as dead as it would seem. They also mention the primordial plus tire, the 10th anniversary 24x3.0 tire that was put in the limited edition 1x1. When you start thinking like that, and you think of the frames that already exist for 26x5.0 and 27.5x4.5 or whatever, it starts to seem possible. The podcast guest from Meriweather cycles also mentions some interesting discussions he had with Surly. I'm team Moonlander 2.0.
 
#375 ·
What shenanigans is this!?
Supporting your claims with detailed facts from people actually in the know!?
I had to double check. I thought this was MTBR Forums.....

WIll listen to the DangerGnome now.
Thank you.
 
#377 ·
93EXCivic said:
I am hoping for bike similar to the RSD Sergent. Basically able to fit fat tires with a non fat bike BB, aggressive geo and tons of mounts.

Or a mini velo.
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Damn.
I'm not sure that RSD would have been on my RADAR but they're all pretty cool. So, now they are.
 
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#378 ·
I have an RSD Middlechild, it's fantastic and takes all sorts of configurations and does them all well. I have it in a 120mm 29er, 160 27.5, and rigid 29.

Also Preamble where i live is selling like hot-cakes. Everytime I commute by bike I see at least 3 per day.
 
#379 ·
Well I’ll be damned.
I’d have bet you $20 that there’s no way I care to listen to 45 minutes of doods talking about fat bikes. Especially tire widths and rumors.
But that was worth a listen. Thanks.
 
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