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Final verdict for Gates Belt and IGH on a gravel bike - not as good as it sounds

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BadgerOne

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I'm about 13 months in on a Priority Apollo 11. I've ridden the crap out of this thing, I don't know how many miles but I ride daily year-round. I'd guess it has at least 5k on it. It has a Gates CDX belt system and a Shimano Alfine 11 IGH. The luster of this setup has largely worn off. The following applies to all bikes of this type, so if you're considering one with these features, keep this in mind.

Pros:
  • Dead silent, both pedaling and coasting. Easily my favorite thing about it.
  • Reduced maintenance. I hate doing bike maintenance.
Cons:
  • Belt not maintenance free as claimed, needs silicone occasionally to keep silent
  • Belt ring/crank runout causes susbstantial differences in belt tension throughout crank rotation. To loose, it can skip. Too tight, it can cause noise and wear in the hub.
  • Hub is heavy and a little weepy at the seals
  • Hub can occasionally skip and bang even with a perfect cable
  • Hugely long brifter throws on downshifts
  • Taking off and replacing back wheel kinda sucks
  • Can't easily have a second or replacement wheelset because of the IGH. Recently taco'd a rear rim and now have to deal with that nonsense
  • Frame alignment of this example is pretty poor, especially the stays

Bottom line...sounded like a panacea, but I'm mostly just irritated by the thing. +1 for the regular, proven setups, even if it means a little more maintenance and is a little less sexy. YMMV, but be aware if you ever consider something like this.

Image
 
#3 ·
I have one of their ebikes for commuting to work. I came to it from an REI ebike, specifically for the belt drive and IGH.

You're right in that they can be finicky to set up, still skip occasionally, the pain of changing a rear flat, etc. I still ride it and will continue to ride it for commuting. I ride year-round in Boston, so plenty of rain and snow and salt and sand. My bike sits outside at work and in a shed at home. I like keeping my "fun" bikes pristine, but I just want to hop on and go for my commuter.

In the 2 years I've owned it, I've had to replace brake pads 2x and tires once. In the 2 years with my previous bike, I was on my third chain, second cassette, second derailleur, and probably third bottle of squirt. Not to mention tires and brakes.
 
#4 ·
BadgerOne said:
Bottom line...sounded like a panacea, but I'm mostly just irritated by the thing. +1 for the regular, proven setups, even if it means a little more maintenance and is a little less sexy. YMMV, but be aware if you ever consider something like this.
Click to expand...
I've always thought that the belt drive system seemed like a solution in search of a problem.
There's always a caveat. "It's maintenance free, but..." "It's silent, except..." "You never have to replace the belt, until..."

I think a lot of your issues could possibly be solved with a higher spec component set. The pulleys shouldn't have that kind of runout, Alfine is not top of the line, and frame alignment issues are a whole 'nother thing....

But I'd do it again with a chain and some cogs.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Suns_PSD said:
What is this, some sort of internal rear hub geared system?

Sorry it didn't work out great.

Truth is that the old cassette keeps sticking around 'cause it just works!
Click to expand...
Yeah, 11-speeed internal planetary gear set. Honestly the hub itself is pretty good, and even efficient, but it's a pig. I guess there's a reason the old dangling-bat-and-balls stuff is still around after all these decades (century?). You're right, it just works. I've always said that simplicity is gangsta, guess I need to listen to myself more often.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
forkboy said:
I've always thought that the belt drive system seemed like a solution in search of a problem.
There's always a caveat. "It's maintenance free, but..." "It's silent, except..." "You never have to replace the belt, until..."

I think a lot of your issues could possibly be solved with a higher spec component set. The pulleys shouldn't have that kind of runout, Alfine is not top of the line, and frame alignment issues are a whole 'nother thing....

But I'd do it again with a chain and some cogs.
Click to expand...
Definitely true about component spec. Since I wasn't sure it was for me, I didn't want to spend a ton of money to find out. To be clear the actual runout isn't that bad, but just a wee little bit of it dramatically affects belt tension. Just the nature of the beast, having to tune the belt to a specific frequency via the app. A chain and cogs would certainly alleviate the sensitivity.

The wheel thing is probably the most annoying item. Finding and spending a lot of time re-lacing a wheel and all that jazz is just a pain in the ass, I'd rather just swap a wheel and get to the other bits later. This hub unfortunately makes this impossible.

The frame alignment is just everyday China price-point stuff, which I guess I should have expected. I bought the bike for $1600, and just the belt, cogs, hub, and brifters at consumer prices add up to more than half that.
 
#7 ·
I've ridden IGH bikes and belt drive bikes and I'd definitely combine the two for a commuter bike. I've never trusted the "maintenance free" comments, but reduced maintenance and less grime are huge advantages for me in a commuter. I'd be using some hefty, porky tires on a commuter so flat risk would be reduced.

On a bike for fun, I'm not sure I'm convinced of the combo. I feel like an IGH does weird things to weight distribution and it's not necessarily something I'd want for a mtb. I'd rather go gearbox for that. But I think I'd still lean towards a chain drive system because of the belt tension thing if you need to pull the wheel off to install a tube.
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Harold said:
I've ridden IGH bikes and belt drive bikes and I'd definitely combine the two for a commuter bike. I've never trusted the "maintenance free" comments, but reduced maintenance and less grime are huge advantages for me in a commuter. I'd be using some hefty, porky tires on a commuter so flat risk would be reduced.

On a bike for fun, I'm not sure I'm convinced of the combo. I feel like an IGH does weird things to weight distribution and it's not necessarily something I'd want for a mtb. I'd rather go gearbox for that. But I think I'd still lean towards a chain drive system because of the belt tension thing if you need to pull the wheel off to install a tube.
Click to expand...
For a forget-about-it-commuter, I think it would be a good combo. If I were to personally do that, I'd go with an Alfine 8 or Enviolo CVT hub. The 11 is pretty good, but it is oil bath and tends to weep. Neither of the other two would do that, although there is a slight efficiency penalty with them (and as far as I can tell, there is efficiency loss with a belt too). I've manged to fit 42mm tires on the Apollo for some decent ride characteristics.

The belt tension is independent of wheel removal, so they've got that part figured out at least. A bigger concern is removing/managing/reinstalling the damn shift cable when you need to remove the wheel. Re-installation of the cable is not fun and causes streams of four-letter words.
 
#9 ·
I had an alfine 8 with a chain on my commuter for a long time. It worked as advertised and never gave me any trouble.

My frame had a good sliding dropout system so taking the wheel off wasn’t too bad.

I changed the hub oil every 3-5k miles and the chain as necessary but that was about it. Probably I could have gotten away with fewer oil changes. It seemed pretty well sealed.

I’m not sure a belt would have been a big upgrade. Chains last a lot longer and need less maintenance for IG compared to derailleurs. You always have a perfect chainline and you get less contamination from crap on the gears.

However, I did switch to a conventional gravel bike a while ago and I have no regrets. The derailleur setup is lighter and faster. Alfine 8 is not as efficient as derailleurs and the loss gets proportionally bigger the more watts you push. Like it’s fine if you’re just cruising, but it just saps all the joy out when you really crank it. Alfine 11 is maybe better but I’ve ridden it and I still don’t think it’s as efficient as a derailleur.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
james_howard said:
I had an alfine 8 with a chain on my commuter for a long time. It worked as advertised and never gave me any trouble.

My frame had a good sliding dropout system so taking the wheel off wasn’t too bad.

I changed the hub oil every 3-5k miles and the chain as necessary but that was about it. Probably I could have gotten away with fewer oil changes. It seemed pretty well sealed.

I’m not sure a belt would have been a big upgrade. Chains last a lot longer and need less maintenance for IG compared to derailleurs. You always have a perfect chainline and you get less contamination from crap on the gears.

However, I did switch to a conventional gravel bike a while ago and I have no regrets. The derailleur setup is lighter and faster. Alfine 8 is not as efficient as derailleurs and the loss gets proportionally bigger the more watts you push. Like it’s fine if you’re just cruising, but it just saps all the joy out when you really crank it. Alfine 11 is maybe better but I’ve ridden it and I still don’t think it’s as efficient as a derailleur.
Click to expand...
You're spot on about the loss. Putzing around, it's no biggie. Start to give it the onion though, and things start to feel laggy and slow-ish. I can only assume that is because the planetary gears are overdriven from the hub, and create more drag.
 
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BadgerOne
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