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Anyone here have experience with Elitewheels carbon wheels?

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#261 ·
lesoudeur said:
The photos were taken before the ratchets were installed so should look intact. i hope that they look as good when I take them out at the end of next week for inspection and relubrication.
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Doh! I thought that was a picture after 100kms, which was why I was impressed with the finish. Definitely would love to see how they look around the 200km mark if you can grab some pictures.
 
#262 ·
kwarwick said:
I've had my EW Gnar Trail SR wheelset (with factory supplied 60t ratchets) for about a month and put a little over 200kms on them so far. Yesterday I experienced what may have been slippage half way into my ride... hard to tell if it was the freehub or maybe some debris got into the chain/cassette briefly. Whatever was going on seemed to resolve by itself, which is not exactly reassuring, so I decided an inspection of the rear hub was in order.

Grease in the freehub was black, but not gritty. After disassembling the ratchet "cartridge" and giving the ratchets a good cleaning this is what they look like:

View attachment 2106688 View attachment 2106689

Do this seem like a fair amount of wear for only 200kms? I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on things going forward and I'm already considering purchasing some extra ratchets for backup purposes.
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It is difficult to tell without the close up picture. But I think looks quite similar to my failed Fovno 60t(see my pictures in post #142). Maybe slightly less wear. Mine completely failed and won't engage at the time because a small broken piece was there preventing the engagement. It will probably "work" after I clean out the broken piece.

When you clean it, do you see any metal shavings? It might be hard to see since yours is black.

I am going to take out my new 60t ratchet to check it tomorrow. I have at least around 500 miles on it.
 
#263 ·
hhjj134 said:
When you clean it, do you see any metal shavings? It might be hard to see since yours is black.
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I didn't see any metal shavings, and the grease didn't feel gritty between my fingers... but the grease was very black, which makes you wonder. I cleaned the ratchets thoroughly, as they are easy to drop into cleaning solutions and scrub with brushes. I would have loved to wash out hub/freehub internals too, but that's pretty hard to do without getting cleaner into bearings and shortening their life.

Now that I think about it, it seems likely there were some metal bits floating around between the ratchets and that's why I had period of slipping on my last ride that didn't go away until those pieces got either further chewed up or pushed out from between the ratchet surfaces. :unsure:

I sent those photos to Elite to see if they will have any comments or offer to replace the ratchets.
 
#264 · (Edited)
kwarwick said:
I didn't see any metal shavings, and the grease didn't feel gritty between my fingers... but the grease was very black, which makes you wonder. I cleaned the ratchets thoroughly, as they are easy to drop into cleaning solutions and scrub with brushes. I would have loved to wash out hub/freehub internals too, but that's pretty hard to do without getting cleaner into bearings and shortening their life.

Now that I think about it, it seems likely there were some metal bits floating around between the ratchets and that's why I had period of slipping on my last ride that didn't go away until those pieces got either further chewed up or pushed out from between the ratchet surfaces. :unsure:

I sent those photos to Elite to see if they will have any comments or offer to replace the ratchets.
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Would not worry about the freehub too much as you could hold it upside down and use a toothbrush dipped in meths etc to clean the teeth. The bearings are 6802 and if you wanted, can be easily removed with a drift after pushing the internal metal spacer to one side for the first bearing. Also, repacking them with grease is easy once you have removed the seals with a pick. Today I received a back up 60t Fovno DR-106 ratchet sent direct from Ali express. No tin this time, just a plastic bag with a label. The ratchets look the same as the first pair but do not have any markings on the inside and the pack includes two straight springs with the red washer. Will be interesting to hear what EW say. Does the 60t come as standard now?
 
#265 ·
I cleaned and checked my current 60T ratchet today. I think I have some conclusions here.

After at least 500miles, the current 60T still look like new with very minimal wear at the tip of the teeth. In contrast, other two ratchets: the Fovno 60T and the stock EW 36T, the wear at the tip of the teeth is much worse. Most of the tip are a bit chipped or rounded off. Also, these two ratchet have much less miles on them at around 200miles.

The key differences on the setup between the good and bad ratchets:
  1. light coat of grease (dap the grease with finger and rub all the parts) vs packing a bunch in it (I was trying to make the hub quieter). I used Pro-X Freehub Grease including the stock ratchet
  2. using two springs vs using one spring
  3. obvious one, different ratchets. I doubt that makes the difference.
Someone has reported that he has also used a lot of grease and have no issue. So I am leaning towards the two spring made the difference here.

Image



Image
 
#266 ·
lesoudeur said:
Would not worry about the freehub too much as you could hold it upside down and use a toothbrush dipped in meths etc to clean the teeth. The bearings are 6802 and if you wanted, can be easily removed with a drift after pushing the internal metal spacer to one side for the first bearing. Also, repacking them with grease is easy once you have removed the seals with a pick.
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Yeah, I didn't feel like getting into that level of cleaning but I may reconsider given the potential that metal bits might be floating around in the remaining grease. Ultimately I suspect my ratchets are not long for this world, and have ordered Fovno 60t from Aliexpress, so may save the through cleaning for when I get the new ratchets. Now I'm wondering if I'll bother with the Fovno 60t and should instead source some 36t ratchets?

lesoudeur said:
Will be interesting to hear what EW say. Does the 60t come as standard now?
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Nothing back from EW yet... I may need to rephrase my initial inquiry to them in terms of a failure to get a their attention. As far as I know, EW is still supplying 36t as standard but when I asked them about the 60t ratchet set they said they would be happy to upgrade me, so its seems to be an informal upgrade. They didn't ask questions or provide any disclaimers about them being less durable. If I had known they would fail this quickly I would have stuck with 36t.
 
#269 ·
kwarwick said:
Nothing back from EW yet... I may need to rephrase my initial inquiry to them in terms of a failure to get a their attention. As far as I know, EW is still supplying 36t as standard but when I asked them about the 60t ratchet set they said they would be happy to upgrade me, so its seems to be an informal upgrade. They didn't ask questions or provide any disclaimers about them being less durable. If I had known they would fail this quickly I would have stuck with 36t.
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EW just replied to the service ticket I opened with them yesterday. They want to send me replacement ratchets via FedEx, but have asked if I want 60t or 36t this time. While I loved the 60t for the short time I had them, I'm thinking trying them again is just asking for trouble, so I'm inclined to ask for 36t. What do you folks think?
 
#270 ·
kwarwick said:
EW just replied to the service ticket I opened with them yesterday. They want to send me replacement ratchets via FedEx, but have asked if I want 60t or 36t this time. While I loved the 60t for the short time I had them, I'm thinking trying them again is just asking for trouble, so I'm inclined to ask for 36t. What do you folks think?
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If you want quick engagement, I would go for the 60T. Maybe my picture is too small. I see the same wear and rounded tip at the top of the teeth on my stock 36T just like the Fovno 60t when the setting up is not right.
 
#272 ·
Ryandurepo said:
something big with DT or non-DT internals that people sometimes overlook...the higher that tooth count the "smaller" the actually grab tooth height, compare an 18t and a 54t and its significant. What happens in the higher tooth variants is if you use a thicker grease (yes even the supplied DT grease) and use it in a little colder temps, the grease becomes way more viscous and doesn't allow the teeth to "smash" together as fast, i had a pair of 54 DT fail on me due to this, ever since I have switched to phil tenacious oil and have never had a problem. expect loud hub noises always using the oil, but sleep like a baby knowing it wont fail in cooler temps.

*not saying at all the non-DT are reliable in any way, just stating a data point on grease, and maybe the use above was using thick grease (kind of looks like it) when his non-DT internals failed.
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Worthwhile reflecting on this. Do EW recommend a grease with both the 36t and 60t?
 
#273 ·
Appreciate all the comments folks. I'm going to give the 60t ratchets another try.

I have to give props to EliteWheels , they are standing behind their products. I asked my support contact about the 60t vs 36t ratchets and here is what he said:

"In my opinion, 36T ratchets are tougher than 60T ratchets. But please do not worry, all our wheels come with a 3-year warranty including the ratchet parts. If you prefer 60T ratchets, you can still choose the replacement 60T ratchet parts."
 
#275 ·
A small update...

I wanted to ride yesterday and since I didn't trust these worn 60t ratchets I replaced them with a pair of official DT Swiss 36t EXP ratchets. Good thing about the EXP ratchets is they have a similar hollowed out design as the EW ratchets so I could use the same cylindrical spring and other hardware bits that make up their "integrated" ratchet mechansim. Before I did this I cleaned out the old grease from the hub and freehub and to be absolutely certain there were no metal fragments from the damaged ratchets I rooted around inside with a small magnet, and indeed it did grab more than a few black metal bits. I think this could be an important step to be certain there isn't any metal debris left behind that could damage any replacement ratchets.

Yesteray's ride was completely event free, although I kind of missed the loudness and extra engagement of the 60t ratchets. But honestly, I think I can get over this if it means a reliable ratchet system, so I'm considering if I just stick with this solution and call it a day.
 
#276 ·
kwarwick said:
A small update...

I wanted to ride yesterday and since I didn't trust these worn 60t ratchets I replaced them with a pair of official DT Swiss 36t EXP ratchets. Good thing about the EXP ratchets is they have a similar hollowed out design as the EW ratchets so I could use the same cylindrical spring and other hardware bits that make up their "integrated" ratchet mechansim. Before I did this I cleaned out the old grease from the hub and freehub and to be absolutely certain there were no metal fragments from the damaged ratchets I rooted around inside with a small magnet, and indeed it did grab more than a few black metal bits. I think this could be an important step to be certain there isn't any metal debris left behind that could damage any replacement ratchets.

Yesteray's ride was completely event free, although I kind of missed the loudness and extra engagement of the 60t ratchets. But honestly, I think I can get over this if it means a reliable ratchet system, so I'm considering if I just stick with this solution and call it a day.
Click to expand...
Did you still use the white nylon washer from the stock EW Pro hub?
The magical mystery tour continues. This was with a real 240 EXP when "upgrading" to a genuine 54t EXP kit.
 
#277 · (Edited)
lesoudeur said:
Did you still use the white nylon washer from the stock EW Pro hub?
The magical mystery tour continues. This was with a real 240 EXP when "upgrading" to a genuine 54t EXP kit.
Click to expand...
Seems like there are a lot of mystery failures of the higher tooth count ratchets. My suspicion is that they all start in a similar way with something preventing the ratchets from fully meshing under load, and immediately fracturing one of more of the edges of the ratchet teeth, which further prevents the ratchets meshing leading to a cascade failure with many teeth getting damaged.

These teeth are so tiny that there just isn't much tolerance for any debris... could be a small grain of sand is enough to do this.

I did use the white nylon washer, along with the o-ring on the backside of the non-moving ratchet to hold the integrated assembly together. Just to be clear, I used 2 of the outboard EXP ratchets.
 
#278 ·
kwarwick said:
Seems like there are a lot of mystery failures of the higher tooth count ratchets. My suspicion is that they all start in a similar way with something preventing the ratchets from fully meshing under load, and immediately fracturing one of more of the edges of the ratchet teeth, which further prevents the ratchets meshing leading to a cascade failure with many teeth getting damaged.

These teeth are so tiny that there just isn't much tolerance for any debris... could be a small grain of sand is enough to do this.

I did use the white nylon washer, along with the o-ring on the backside of the non-moving ratchet to hold the integrated assembly together. Just to be clear, I used 2 of the outboard EXP ratchets.
Click to expand...
I really doubt tooth count is the main factor of the failure. Just look at how bad my 36 teeth were after just a 200 miles. Low tooth count with deeper teeth probably have higher tolerance if there are any broken metal bits. But the metal bits should not exist from the first place. Otherwise, failure is just matter of time.



Image
 
#279 ·
hhjj134 said:
I really doubt tooth count is the main factor of the failure. Just look at how bad my 36 teeth were after just a 200 miles. Low tooth count with deeper teeth probably have higher tolerance if there are any broken metal bits. But the metal bits should not exist from the first place. Otherwise, failure is just matter of time.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that higher resolution zoomed in photo helps with illustrating the damage. So I guess it comes down to poor material quality/hardness which becomes more critical the smaller the tooth size becomes. This was my original assumption knowing how some manufactures cut corners to get the costs down. I've experienced similar problems with off brand pawl based hubs that failed due to the pawls chipping. Unfortunately when you get stuck with one of those, the internals are almost always unique to that brand so you are basically screwed as far as finding alternate sources. This is why I wasn't interested in EliteWheels Frequency hubs with 320 points of engagement because I figured they would be the sole source (also considering the history of the Hydra hubs they are closely copying). At least with the Pro star ratchet hubs we have many other sources for parts, including using original DT Swiss if it turns out the clone parts are all subpar... starting to look like that's the case for the ratchets at least.
 
#280 ·
Just an update. I really got to push the Pro36 wheels this season, well until last week. Ankle surgery has me down until November. Anyway I love the Pro36 wheels. They are so light and strong. And the price is unbeatable. Gives the bike a whole new feel and the light weight is substantially noticeable when riding. Best upgrade to any bike. Man these are nice.
 
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