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Does the piston still fit even though it’s different? Maybe it’s revision to the part? It sounds like you re-fitted the old one?

Have you tried bleeding with this method? I think the main difference to the SRAM procedure is where he locks off the lever syringe and pulls the vacuum on the caliper

Not sure how you’re centring your caliper but these R3pro tools along with the “How to make your sram brakes not suck” video, my Code Silver Stealth are perfect, and even between both levers. Not sure if any are compatible with the Level calipers?

How is your piston advancement/retraction, all even?

Could the hose be damaged internally somehow? Sorry only things I can think of because it seems like you’ve done pretty much everything else.

I’ve come to Code Stealths from XT8100, wouldn’t go back to Shimano.
 
have you tried swappping levers front to back? this would help you track down what exactly is the offending part.. i agree with the other poster.. maybe the part you received fixes something.. it isnt unheard of theres a running change from a manufacturer along the way ;) since youve already reached out to SRAM about that.. lets wait till they pipe up so we dont get ahead of ourselves lol.. in the meantime.. maybe swap levers right to left and rebleed everything.. maybe something more would pop up and well have something to chase for real instead of just suspicions ;)
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
@j.bro @Marty01

Some good tips from both of you - Watched the above clip from Canyon, and the process he does is pretty much identical to what I am doing, or have been trying at least. I have been using a 2.4mm spacer inbetween a spare set of pads now on the last bleeds instead of a bleed block, to try and have the pistons slightly advanced to get more fluid into the system.

After sleeping on it, I have a theory - Which I havent checked yet, but would kind of make sense.

I believe one or more pistons are not moving freely/at the same time as the others. So when I bleed it with a big bleed block, it feels very firm - Because none of the pistons have anywhere to go. But as soon as I put the pads in, and mount the wheel. I pump it up, and the bite point feels soft, and is further in than the other side.

My theory now is - One piston is not moving as freely as the others, or is just behind. This would mean, I get a good bleed. But when I then mount pads/wheel, pump it up, 3 of the pistons move out, but one is behind the other ones. In my head this would cause the issues I am experiencing. Since only 3 of the pistons move out, the one that is behind the other ones, only starts moving when the other 3 hit the pads/disc, and would make the lever feel somewhat soft, and have the bite point a few mil further in.

If I am at the bite point up in the lever(essentially the piston/plunger in the lever is close to bottoming out) - The last piston is just moving freely in "the air" between and not hitting the back of the pad, which most likely would move the bite point, and make the lever feel soft.

For now this is my theory - Will test this afternoon when I get home from work.

I will check to see if the pistons is moving freely today, which I suspect is not the case, pretty sure one of them is stuck/moving after the others.

Not a 100% sure how I will solve it though. Will most likely have to push the pistons out slightly with the method from above clips, and clean/massage them with a cotton swab and some brake fluid to see if there is any dirt (its pretty much brand new, but you never now)

When that is done, if that one specific piston is still "behind" - Will probably advance that piston slightly, and then put it back together. And/or advance all the pistons so the pads are just close to contacting the disc.

It will probably still be difficult to get the bite point exactly the same as the front brake, even with this method. So chances are, if I get it working on the rear brake, I will have to replicate whatever piston advancement I did to the front as well, to have a similar contact point. Having some contact point adjustment on the level ultimate stealths would most likely come in quite handy in this, but in the name of saving 10 grams sram skipped that for these brakes. Then again, if one piston is not moving as freely as the other 3, it would probably still be an issue.




And regarding the spare parts/repair kit being a new revision/updated part hit my mind as well. But looking at srams pictures/service documents, there are mostly pics of this "wrong" version of the piston/plunger for the lever, but the pictures are old, and from the last generation of brakes - So I believe this is the piston/plunger used in the "Level Ultimate" with bite point adjustment, not the new stealth versions without bite point adjustment. And it is most likely an oversight from someone at sram who thought the same kit could be used for the new stealth version of the brakes.

Rant done - Will test this theory this afternoon, and get back with an update.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
When things get weird, I just say F$%k it and take it to a shop and have them deal with it haha
Unfortunately I dont have any shop anywhere remotely close to me. Called a shop where I know a guy, and all the tips I got was already things I have tried. But hopefully my latest theory leads somewhere, if not, throw the brakes in the bin!
 
The “how to make you sram brakes not suck” shows the procedure for getting them advancing equally I think. If not then he’s got another video showing it.

If not, then you need to hold the ones which are advancing faster back. He uses a screwdriver. I use a plastic trim tool to not gouge the caliper body. Then squeeze the lever to get the slow one out. Takes a bit of fiddling if you over extend etc.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
The “how to make you sram brakes not suck” shows the procedure for getting them advancing equally I think. If not then he’s got another video showing it.

If not, then you need to hold the ones which are advancing faster back. He uses a screwdriver. I use a plastic trim tool to not gouge the caliper body. Then squeeze the lever to get the slow one out. Takes a bit of fiddling if you over extend etc.
Yeah it was exactly that vid that made me re-think what could go wrong. I planned doing that yesterday when I thought renovating the lever would have solved the issue, to get my bite point exactly where I wanted it. But never got that far. But after a sleepless night it had me thinking, that if one of the calipers were to be "stuck" or just lagging behind, it would probably cause an issue similar to mine.

So yeah, will re-check that vid once again when im in the garage today, and make sure all pistons are moving freely. I have a few tire levers and some trim tools that should work just fine for the job. I have done something similar in the past, but didnt have the syringe connected to the lever, but it makes sense for it to be able draw extra fluid from the syringe instead of pulling a vacuum in the reservoir.

Will update the thread when/if I succeed with this method. When adding all these tips and tricks up from this thread, and now my extra knowledge of bleeding the brakes 50 different times during this past week - IF I get it to work after this, I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of how to make any sram brake good.

Not my first rodeo with sram brakes, never had a similar issue. And having bled these exact brakes before with no issues is what is doing my head in. But I am hopeful for this latest solution! Havent ridden the bike in two weeks because of this, so im amped to get it sorted.
 
Like @j.bro said, rewatch the video I sent. The step where he puts a 4mm hex between the pistons... keep an eye on the calipers and piston movement when extending the pistons/squeezing the lever. You'll see right away if a piston is f'd. Just don't be like me and press the pistons back in unequally or too much one at a time. You'll push out a piston and start bleeding ALLLLLLL over again.
 
Discussion starter · #29 · (Edited)
I understand all of you are sitting on the edge of your seat, wanting the conclusion to this story!

No but in all seriousness. Thank you all for the videos, tips and input. I took a little something from every vid/tip - And I believe the issue is resolved.

My theory fromthis morning was that one of the pistons must be stuck-ish, and/or very behind the other ones.


So I removed the bleed block, put a syringe into the lever, and started pumping. Some of them came out faster than the others. Pushing them in made another one come out etc. But there was one piston, that was quite stubborn. So I had faith.

Put a 4mil allen key in the caliper to act as a spacer (tip taken from one of the above vids) and then I took a cotton swab dipped in brake fluid, and cleaned the pistons. They were a bit dirty, but not that it should have caused this issue in my opinion.

Pushed them in and out a few times after that. And they did in fact start moving more freely. Pushed them out one last time and took a dry cotton swab and dried off any excess fluid. Pushed the pistons back in one last time. Mounted the wheel and aligned the caliper without the pads in. Then mounted the pads, and pumped up the brake. And Voila - Bite point feels solid, and it grabs about 10mm further out. Great!

Only thing is, now the rear brake felt better than the front brake. Bite point was further out, but the "firm-ness" was about the same for both brakes.

So I just redid everything I did with the rear brake, to the front as well, and the bite point/feeling is now very similar. The bite point is within a millimeter or two of eachother, and I can not tell any real difference between the front/rear.


So, moral of the story is - Clean/lube your pistons folks. The bike has less than 20hrs on it, and to be honest i've ridden when its dry 90% of the time. My last bike I had the same brakes (not stealth version, but calipers are identical) - Which I rode for 2 years, dont think I cleaned the pistons once, and didnt have this issue. So not sure if I was just unlucky, or srams brakes/assembly has gotten worse.
 
So, moral of the story is - Clean/lube your pistons folks. The bike has less than 20hrs on it, and to be honest i've ridden when its dry 90% of the time. My last bike I had the same brakes (not stealth version, but calipers are identical) - Which I rode for 2 years, dont think I cleaned the pistons once, and didnt have this issue. So not sure if I was just unlucky, or srams brakes/assembly has gotten worse.
I think reading this (and the myriad of other brake threads) is perhaps current brakes need more break in time? I mean yes you have twenty hours on the bike, but depending on where someone rides, it might be hardly any braking.

I simply wonder if piston seals are being made a little bit more robustly. I mean it seems nuts to me to get a brand new brake, and having to walk pistons in and out, clean etc.

Over filling to adjust bite points fills me with terror too. If one has done this, and then has an issue on the trail and you have to put spare (presumably new) pads in, there's no chance you'll get the rotor in.
Any rant over. Glad your issue is solved!
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
That video has saved a lot of lives.
Indeed. I dont think for me, it was as much the cleaning part - But more "massaging" the pistons and lubing the o-rings. One can think you wouldnt need to do that with a brand new bike/brakes. But you learn something every day!

Using the 4mil allen as a perfect spacer is something I'll never forget though, probably one of the most useful tips from this thread!
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
I think reading this (and the myriad of other brake threads) is perhaps current brakes need more break in time? I mean yes you have twenty hours on the bike, but depending on where someone rides, it might be hardly any braking.

I simply wonder if piston seals are being made a little bit more robustly. I mean it seems nuts to me to get a brand new brake, and having to walk pistons in and out, clean etc.

Over filling to adjust bite points fills me with terror too. If one has done this, and then has an issue on the trail and you have to put spare (presumably new) pads in, there's no chance you'll get the rotor in.
Any rant over. Glad your issue is solved!
Yeah I honestly dont know what the issue stems from really. Since I had sram level brakes on my last bike as well, which I rode mostly on the exact same trails/environment as this bike, and I never had any issues with them.

I wonder if it could have something to do with the coating. I dont know if they are clear coated raw alu, or chrome plated or something. If they're plated, chances are the bores have this coating in them as well, and tolerances might be too tight. Because it took A LOT of force pushing some of them back in. Like almost so much I couldnt push them in.
 
If they're plated, chances are the bores have this coating in them as well, and tolerances might be too tight. Because it took A LOT of force pushing some of them back in. Like almost so much I couldnt push them in.
There's a whole thread (based off the YouTube video) talking about how firm the levers are. Maybe the pistons are tight instead as you say.
 
Discussion starter · #35 ·
There's a whole thread (based off the YouTube video) talking about how firm the levers are. Maybe the pistons are tight instead as you say.
Yeah, I am not surprised more people have questions.

I'll keep running them for a while, and hopefully they stay somewhat consistent. Not sure where else to go otherwise.

I love the feeling of Shimano brakes as well, but they have their fair share of issues (leaking lever body, leaking pistons, cracked pistons) - Not sure how common those are, but I would be just as annoyed as I have been now.

I am planning an enduro/bikepark build soon. And I will 100% try to get a set of "Intend Trinity" brakes. They apparently are THE brakes to have, and they have purposely been made to be as easy to bleed as possible, in like 1 minute. And the lever resistance is like a third of even a shimano brake.
 
I found the pistons hard to push back on my Code Stealths, which is why I’ve just bought the SRAM Piston Press. Better to be tight than weep though.

I didn’t lube my pistons yet as SRAM says not to. Their reason is for pad retraction. Maybe I’ll have to at some point if they get bad. They all seem to still be moving equally currently. Lever pull has remained consistent too. Something which my XTs didn’t do, seemed to pull further as the pads worn.
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
I found the pistons hard to push back on my Code Stealths, which is why I’ve just bought the SRAM Piston Press. Better to be tight than weep though.

I didn’t lube my pistons yet as SRAM says not to. Their reason is for pad retraction. Maybe I’ll have to at some point if they get bad. They all seem to still be moving equally currently. Lever pull has remained consistent too. Something which my XTs didn’t do, seemed to pull further as the pads worn.
Yeah, you're right about that. The difference between tight enough, and a bit too tight is probably such a small margin on these small brakes. Difficult when a caliper is a 20th the size of a caliper of a normal car, so the tolerances are probably difficult to get spot on when you make thousands of them.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
good job on the find and fix :) we may have steered the boat now and then.. but in the end.. you got the ship home eh ;) good job on that :)
Yeah - I obviously knew about cleaning/lubing the pistons beforehand. But it being a pretty much brand new bike, that thought didnt really even cross my mind. But seems like the age of the brakes doesnt even matter.

Still no answer from Sram regarding the repair kit either. Which, looking at what the issue was in the end, I wouldnt even have needed. So hopefully I can get reimbursed, or be sent the correct parts to have as a backup.
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
Got an answer from SRAM just an hour ago. They confirmed that the part I received is in fact correct. It is a new updated part for the level stealth brakes.

Looking at the part, and understanding what it does, I thought about what the update is/or what it fixed. It essentially adds more volume to the piston that pushes the brake fluid. Which would result in a bite point that is further out..? The old piston (at least with how I run my levers) never hits a "hard stop" - If I really want to, I can pretty much pull them to the bar, or close to, if I pull really hard. And I run my levers about mid way through the adjustement screw.

I wonder if this new, longer end of the piston prevents the long "modulation" that sram brakes has, and it makes them come to a hard stop if you pull enough.

I asked sram for further info on this part, what it actually is supposed to do/fix. Because, I dont want my brakes to feel different (the sole reason for starting this thread) - And if it makes them vastly better, I will buy another repair kit and upgrade both sides. Will update with their answer.


Pic again for the new part - can clearly see the end where the spring sits over, is about x2 the length.
Image
 
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