Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

2023 Manitou Mattoc

Jump to Latest
661 - 680 of 948 Posts
#661 ·
I have been riding my wife's new bike with Mattox Expert lately because my frame was in for a warranty replacement.
I am super impressed by the fork's sensitivity, but it's also using like 80% travel even when riding regular forest trails. I am sure I set the correct pressure (I guess based on the manual or 20% SAG or whatever).
It's better when I turn the only knob on the fork a few clicks to the right (what does it even do, LSC and a lockout at the end?), but I'm not sure whether I should be using that or add some pressure instead, which would probably make the fork less sensitive to bumps.
 
#662 · (Edited)
Octopuss said:
I have been riding my wife's new bike with Mattox Expert lately because my frame was in for a warranty replacement.
I am super impressed by the fork's sensitivity, but it's also using like 80% travel even when riding regular forest trails. I am sure I set the correct pressure (I guess based on the manual or 20% SAG or whatever).
It's better when I turn the only knob on the fork a few clicks to the right (what does it even do, LSC and a lockout at the end?), but I'm not sure whether I should be using that or add some pressure instead, which would probably make the fork less sensitive to bumps.
Click to expand...
Have you read the set-up guide and watched the tuning video?
 
#663 ·
Octopuss said:
I have been riding my wife's new bike with Mattox Expert lately because my frame was in for a warranty replacement.
I am super impressed by the fork's sensitivity, but it's also using like 80% travel even when riding regular forest trails. I am sure I set the correct pressure (I guess based on the manual or 20% SAG or whatever).
It's better when I turn the only knob on the fork a few clicks to the right (what does it even do, LSC and a lockout at the end?), but I'm not sure whether I should be using that or add some pressure instead, which would probably make the fork less sensitive to bumps.
Click to expand...
I've noticed similar, mattoc sense to use a lot of travel no matter how much pressure I put into it.
 
#665 ·
Octopuss said:
I have been riding my wife's new bike with Mattox Expert lately because my frame was in for a warranty replacement.
I am super impressed by the fork's sensitivity, but it's also using like 80% travel even when riding regular forest trails. I am sure I set the correct pressure (I guess based on the manual or 20% SAG or whatever).
It's better when I turn the only knob on the fork a few clicks to the right (what does it even do, LSC and a lockout at the end?), but I'm not sure whether I should be using that or add some pressure instead, which would probably make the fork less sensitive to bumps.
Click to expand...
A functional damper only generates lots of force at sharp impact in the beginning of the stroke. The shaft speed has to slow down fast and eventually becomes zero at the deepest point of the stroke, when all the force is from the spring.

Riding smooth trail only generates low shaft speed and spring is doing most of the work (with some LSC). Riding a rough trail is when the damper really works. You may well ended up using similar amount of travel in these two situations.

I will say don’t worry about the travel used on a smooth trail, and go tune it on a rough section with decent speed based on the feeling at hands. There is only six position so at most six run should get you sorted :)
 
Discussion starter · #667 ·
I had a Mattoc expert through this week but didn't have time to dyno it to compare damper stiffness.
Special order so it came and went pretty quick.

The Mezzer expert damper when fully open is a lot softer than the Mezzer Pro. Mattoc Pro is softer than Mezzer Pro.
 
#668 · (Edited)
dolface said:
Have you read the set-up guide and watched the tuning video?
Click to expand...
The video is not relevant to Mattoc Expert, and I probably did see the setup guide, but I don't remember. I have opened it now and am confused. What's this "IVA"? There's nothing at the bottom of the fork except for rebound knob.

edit: Ok I got completely confused. The air valve is at the bottom and there is something at the top that seemed like a hard cap. You can actually turn that? Whaaaa!?...
 
Discussion starter · #669 ·
Octopuss said:
The video is not relevant to Mattoc Expert, and I probably did see the setup guide, but I don't remember. I have opened it now and am confused. What's this "IVA"? There's nothing at the bottom of the fork except for rebound knob.

edit: Ok I got completely confused. The air valve is at the bottom and there is something at the top that seemed like a hard cap. You can actually turn that? Whaaaa!?...
Click to expand...
Iva is a captive spacer system under the top cap.
 
#671 · (Edited)
This is rather theretical, but if you want to know how IRT compares to a coil spring or different positive air chamber sizes:

Image


Main presssure: 70 psi
IRT pressure: 140 psi (0 psi for blue and yellow of course)

Think of the blue line as a very small positive air chamber and the yellow line as a very big positive air chamber.

I took the length values from the prior version of the Manitou Mattoc Pro 29" @ 140 mm. However, the principle still applies to the new one or any other secondary air chamber system of other forks.

I guessed the negative chamber length of it, so the beginning forces do not accurately represent this fork, but the graph is just to show IRT vs Coil vs different air chamber sizes.

I might make some other comparison charts. Keep in mind this rather represents the principle and dyno graphs are not as clean as that. Means it does not represent real life, but it can help you to understand what the secondary air chamber does.

In case you wonder about the IRT blocked off thing: It is possible to just use the travel spacers and put them into the IRT chamber (at least on the prior Mattoc), this way you can use it like the IVA System or Volume Spacers of other brands. You should not put any pressure into the IRT chamber. You could, but i think the end progression might be a bit funky. Putting some actual volume spacers of sorts into the IRT chamber however would be very interessting. The travel spacers do not use up enough volume. Would need something different. It would enable to truely tune mid and end progression quite independend, but make setup more complex.
 
#674 ·
TylerVernon said:
How are you measuring this? These graphs look different than previous ones I've seen.
Click to expand...
Simply put: You need to know the volume of the air chambers. I use length and inner diameter. It's not perfect, especially for negative chambers as it usually has some rubber bumper that takes up volume and the sealhead might not be perfectly flat. Regardless, you can still calculate and show the principe of it with Boyle's law and a bit of thinking.

Some of the dyno graphs are just very jittery, but this chart from manitou shows it well enough:

Image


It's the same chart they use in their IRT-Setup videos on youtube:

The purple line reflects pretty well what the orange one shows in my graph.
The orange line also reflects the yellow line in my graph.
 
#676 ·
Dougal said:
Here are actuals:
Click to expand...
Looks better than other charts i have seen. On a lot of them you can see the bends when the the main air chamber matches the IRT chamber pressure. In theory the beginning of the stroke (if same pressure is used for the main chamber) should remain perfectly the same before IRT engages. I guess a dyno test is more dynamic and varies? Can you make the graph more into a square than a rectangle? Then it's easier to compare the lines.
 
#677 ·
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Discussion starter · #678 ·
661 - 680 of 948 Posts
About this Discussion
947 Replies
129 Participants
Last post:
whatnobeer
Mountain Bike Reviews Forum
posts
16M
members
534K
Since
1990
A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Discussion Downhill - Freeride California - Norcal Shocks and Suspension Passion