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Shimano's new low end 1x drivetrain taking place of Alivio, Acera, Altus, etc.

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8.8K views 59 replies 28 participants last post by  smashysmashy  
#1 ·
T
#44 · (Edited)
According to bikegremlin the HyperGlide cassette sprocket pitch (cog spacing) is:

Speed (HyperGlide)Pitch
11 speed Road3.74 mm
10 speed MTB3.95 mm
11 speed MTB3.9 mm

**edit: Reading through the comments on bikegremlins website, and trying to find other reference sources - appears that 11 spd road and MTB sprocket pitch is the same, at 3.74mm. Apologies for the erroneous information.

But CUES will use LinkGlide, and apparently LinkGlide cassettes and shifters (and maybe derailleurs?) are not cross compatible with HyperGlide... but they use the same 11 spd chain. Couldn't find the sprocket pitch for LinkGlide, but the shape and thickness is different from HyperGlide. So it's still a bit confusing.

Image


 
S
#50 ·
titaniumsprucemoose said:
According to bikegremlin the HyperGlide cassette sprocket pitch (cog spacing) is:

Speed (HyperGlide)Pitch
11 speed Road3.74 mm
10 speed MTB3.95 mm
11 speed MTB3.9 mm

**edit: Reading through the comments on bikegremlins website, and trying to find other reference sources - appears that 11 spd road and MTB sprocket pitch is the same, at 3.74mm. Apologies for the erroneous information.

But CUES will use LinkGlide, and apparently LinkGlide cassettes and shifters (and maybe derailleurs?) are not cross compatible with HyperGlide... but they use the same 11 spd chain. Couldn't find the sprocket pitch for LinkGlide, but the shape and thickness is different from HyperGlide. So it's still a bit confusing.

View attachment 2025697

Click to expand...

Everythings a bit fatter on link glide to support e bike stresses. Never had one to measure, but I expect the spacing is a hair wider. Derailleur and shifter rations are likely very different. The info on this should be on the shimano Cues Di2 E bike page (and presumable the old XT linkglide page as I think that is identical as well). I'll look later.

Cues / linkglide seems have a mind to be like 5/6/7/8 speed was, where each extra cog is literally just an extra cog, as opposed to the mess we've had since 9 speed. This makes everything pretty much universal like it used to be. This also means Cues will likely never be 12 speed unless they have accounted for adding that cog with no disruption in chain/spacing. 12(13, 14) will be reserved for the niche performance groups.
 
G
#46 ·
The interesting question is, what does this mean for the future of 12 speed and beyond? It's clear that anything less than 12s will transition to CUES, including 2x11 which is a gravel staple. But what happens to 12s? Do Shimano keep shrinking chain-width to go to 13s and beyond, reproducing the same incompatibility problems further on down the line? I recently did a gearing analysis that suggested that a 1x16 cassette could handle the entire range from the lowest typical MTB gear to the highest typical road gear, with usable jumps between each gear, and could fit onto a Superboost axle with a 12s chain width - a truly do-anything gearing. IIRC the dinner plate would need to be about 64T. I wonder if the patent application Shimano has made for the double jockey-wheel derailleur plays into that.

Maybe we'll see frame and wheel geometries standardize around Superboost for both MTBs and eMTBs, CUES for 11s and below, and a "SuperCUES" for 12s and above. That's pure speculation, of course.
 
#47 ·
Interesting thoughts.
Of course I could be wrong -- I usually am -- but I can't see cassette cogs getting much bigger than the 51/52 tooth monsters they already are.
At current size, they're heavy, their mass means they don't transition from pedaling forward to backpedaling well (or even stopping pedaling, not that this is a big deal) but more than anything else, they're slow shifting. Huge gears means it takes a long time to move the chain from one cog to the next.
I'm hoping for a really, really good ultra-wide Pinionesque transmission system.
Maybe Pinion is already it... dunno. Only tried Pinion for a moment in a parking lot. Seemed good.
=sParty
 
#56 ·
I reviewed your videos on this and they were informative. I like others in the comments would appreciate seeing a CUES 11 Speed cassette dropped into an otherwise M5100 drivetrain. I know the pull is different in the shifter / derailleur but you did mention this may be a possibility if only the cassette is changed. Thanks!
 
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