Changes should rolled out over the new few weeks
Post is more informational but for others an opportunity to **** all over Trailforks, so have at it.
Trailforks App - Changes for Free Users. No longer limited to small local area
OttaCee
Post is more informational but for others an opportunity to **** all over Trailforks, so have at it.
61 - 80 of 83 Posts
Joined
·
3,626 Posts
Lots of trail orgs put together maps and guides for their trail networks, and sell them to help fund advocacy and trailwork.
Same with groups like the Colorado Trail Foundation and Arizona Trail Foundation. These guides aren't specific to bikes but some do include info on bike bypasses around Wilderness Areas and other areas bikes aren't allowed.
Plenty of orgs don't make guide books since most riders prefer to use apps these days. Books are also expensive to compile and print, and go out of date very quickly. Plus, no rider wants to carry around a guide book on the trails. Have you not heard all the members on this forum whining about hydration packs and how sweaty they are? lol.
If you want to support local trail orgs most of them sell memberships, and many of them sell merchandise and hold events as fundraisers to help pay for trail work and advocacy. Trailfors has a link to the local group in the trail description for most trails.
Joined
·
3,626 Posts
How has MTB Project rolled back app data?
Second statement is not true at all. MTB Project was historically crowd sourced just like Trailforks. If it was not getting updated that was because riders were not using the app and uploading trails. Now that MTB Project is owned by OnX they are looking to actively update trail networks in areas where stuff is missing. They are actually paying riders cash to add trails. They approached my local org looking for people to help with this.
Will they eventually migrate this data to OnX? Absolutely. Just like Outside will eventually merge Trailforks and Gaia. Or they might keep them separate with MTB Project having limited map layers and functionality with OnX having more layers and more functions.
Will they keep MTB Project free forever? That is what they are currently saying they will do. Will they stay true to that? Who knows. They are a for-profit business and will take whatever steps they need to, you know....make money. Not sure why so many MTBers have such a problem with for-profit companies making a bit of money.
Joined
·
431 Posts
Ok lol evdog, I don't know why you are so aggressive. Seems a bit weird. I'm not going to discuss with you this way but If you ever manage to put together a polite post we can have a discussion.
Joined
·
2,370 Posts
In January of 2023 app data was rolled back to 2020 data. I realized this when I installed the app on my new phone. I thought it was a glitch, but then I checked my old phone. Same deal. Trails I added personally after 2020 were missing, but still on the website. Other users noticed this as well and made comments in the reviews for the app.
I know MTB Project is crowdsourced. I never claimed different.
I know they offered compensation to add data. See my earlier reply.
And where did I say I wouldn't pay?
Joined
·
3,626 Posts
Interesting. I admittedly don't use MTB Project enough to notice if the app and the web version are different. But that is what you found, and it is still different for the examples you mention? Can you share the trails that are now missing from the app?
In my communications with OnX about contracting to update trails they seem a bit lacking in competence. It took them six weeks to reply to my original email saying I was willing to help, and it was close to 4 months before I got a contract from them. It wouldn't surprise me at all if their IT/engineers are similarly lacking competence and simply screwed something up, causing the app to revert back to an older version of the database. If you load up OnX Backcountry and its MTB option you'll see how bad it is. All they'd need to do is make the MTB project database available in OnX but what they have is completely useless. I worked for a software company for years and saw a shocking amount of incompetence at times. It doesn't make sense that they would intentionally remove stuff that was added over a period of time. The communication I have had with them is that they want to get the app updated to reflect all legal trails in each area. When I referred to app I meant both phone app and web version. I hadn't picked up that there was a difference between the two.
Joined
·
3,626 Posts
Well you know how it is. A bunch of people were wrong on the internet and it was all up to me to set the record straight.
Joined
·
3 Posts
Although it's nice that this has happened, now i have a huge Trailforks logo and an "unlock trailforks pro" button covering 25% of the map. Not idea when i'm trying to navigate while riding.
Joined
·
431 Posts
Can you see where the trails starts and so on? I can't seem to even get info in the trails.
Joined
·
3 Posts
yeah i can, i even contributed a new trail and it got added to the map, but i'm finding it really distracting having that stuff covering the upper part of the map, especially if i'm riding rough downhill trails and there's a fork coming, and i just need to glance down to confirm the right way. I also noticed the trail names have disappeared.
edit: if anyone knows how to remove that logo and button from the map, please let us know.
Sport climbers should have come up with a different word to describe what they do. This is the most charitable way to imply what I really think.
I see OnX is going to force people to make an account there next year. The whole thing is a bit weird. The USGS provides all the data free in terms of topography. People provided the data about trails for free. The companies provide the backend. If youtube can serve videos cheaply enough to make money on short ads, these companies need to determine how to serve their content much cheaper. I rarely use these apps and only noticed today about MTB project so wanted to see what they were doing. Yes, I have added some trails to MTB project over the years. Never used trailforks really. I'm certainly not going to plan on subscribing even though I did end up on a hike a bike for 4 miles with not trail this summer on my way through a mountain range but they would not have listed the non-existent trail (it was there in the 1960s), or the trails leading up to the debacle either because they had no one on them.
Joined
·
42,655 Posts
I'm pretty sure the original companies were just fine with the margins they made using that model when they were founded. The problems started when they were acquired by larger companies that demanded more profit from the properties they owned. Original owners cashed out. But the users are the ones that get stuck with subscription creep. The "benefits" of industry consolidation.
I suspect another company will come along offering a no-charge product for this later on.
You may or may not have noticed, though, that none of these companies are using the free USGS data. They are using data produced by for-profit companies (who charge for loads). The USGS data mostly isn't in the sorts of formats that many users will be happy with now that they are accustomed to Google maps and whatnot.
Joined
·
33 Posts
If you have an iPhone and have subscribe (even once) early on (not sure of the actual cut-off date), you may be eligible for "early Adopter" status. Go to your iCloud settings and check subscriptions. If you still have Trailforks listed (even if expired) click on it again and then select "See all plans". If you are eligible you will see the $17.99 Early Adopter option that is renewable every year for the same price.
I was an early adopter, all I see is a Black Friday 30% off deal.
Joined
·
33 Posts
I wonder if it's a location restriction? Maybe only available in the US.
Here are my options. (interesting enough I don't see the Black Friday option).
Joined
·
295 Posts
You can make USGS map data look any way you want. All of the shaded relief you see on maps is produced with USGS data. Contours are produced from that same data. Roads and trails are vector products from USGS. And the list goes on and on.
Joined
·
42,655 Posts
no, not everything. there are a lot of private geodata companies out there that produce their own data. some have their own satellites for imagery. some hire out planes for LiDAR with their own resources. the list goes on and on.
pulled from google maps just now.
This statement is also buried under the Terms link:
So that doesn't preclude Google's use of data from government sources by any means. But a GREAT DEAL of the data Google Maps displays comes from private companies as well as their own in-house stuff. Maybe some of that data is based on government-supplied data, but as I said above, there are a lot of private companies with their own primary data collection systems.
and even if you're talking about raw vector data specifically from the government (it's not all produced by the USGS. some of it is produced by other agencies), it all gets heavy processing before it's put into map products for public consumption. And all that heavy processing involves work that they charge for. They're not using free data and just passing it along as-is. They aren't just regurgitating USGS topo raster images anymore for the most part.
Joined
·
295 Posts
it’s sad when a know-it-all is wrong and starts digging their heels in. If you know GIS, you can makes amazing looking maps by processing USGS data. Your 1:24k map isn’t going to look any better with some super high rez LiDAR developing the shaded relief compared to STS-99’s dataset. It’s a false economy going high rez when nobody is looking. The best maps are made by cartographic discretion, not fancy data (see Cosmic Ray for the most extreme example).
61 - 80 of 83 Posts
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
-
?
