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HollyBoni

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
My bike came with a 12spd NX Eagle cassette, GX der, GX shifter, SX chain, X1 1000 (OEM option) DUB crankset. The frame is carbon and uses a press fit 92mm shell.

I changed the chain to X01 when the SX chain wore out, and i've been perfectly fine with the durability and performance of everything, other than the BB.

The durability of the DUB BB with the PF92 shell hasn't been the greatest for me, and it started creaking like 2 months after I bought the bike. I just dealt with it, but now the BB is pretty worn and I really want to fix every squeak and creak on the bike. When it comes to the creaking, from what i've read I have two options. Installing a press fit BB with retaining compound, or a thread together PF bottom bracket.
My problem with the retaining compound is that it kinda seems like a gamble whether it works or not, it's pretty expensive, and I might create a headache for myself when I have to remove the BB cups next time. From what i've read I need Loctite 641 retaining compound, and 7649 activator. Where I live 641 costs about €16 for 10ml, and the activator is about €23 for 150ml (which is the smallest I was able to find). That's about the same cost as a DUB BB itself, and who knows whether this stuff will expire/dry up etc. the next time I change the BB.
The other option would be a thread together style BB, but I can't seem to find anything for a DUB crankset and PF92 shell that's tested, durable, and reasonably priced.
Also, neither of these options would fix the durability issues that are caused by that 30mm spindle inside this small BB shell (?).

The next option would be to change the crankset and go down to a 24mm spindle, and a reasonably priced thread together bottom bracket (like Token Ninja, etc.). However one thing I like about SRAM stuff is the cheap steel chainring option. Their DM steel chainring is about €13-15, and it seems to last for ages.

SLX M7100 is pretty reasonably priced, from what i've read the teeth are steel, although the chainrings are almost twice as expensive as the cheapo steel SRAM rings (and I think i'll need a new tool to remove/install Shimano DM rings). One thing I don't know is how well the Shimano 12spd chainrings play with other 12spd chains, from what i've read it seems like there could be compatibility issues?

Another option would be the Race Face Aeffect R. The crank arms themselves are about €45-50 more expensive here than SLX, the steel rings are a bit cheaper but almost the same. What I don't know if these cranks will work with thread together BBs meant for Shimano cranksets, I don't know anything at all about Race Face stuff.

Any other options that i'm missing?

Since the cassette is starting to wear out and the derailleur got banged up a few times, I also thought about trying 11spd Linkglide, but I really love how quiet and smooth my current drivetrain runs with minimal maintenance and cleaning, and i'm a bit afraid to change things up since everything works so good (other than the BB).
 
If you're not buying XT crank arms, there's no real reason to go with Shimano (they have a hollow right arm).

Affect R are great cranks, as long as they're available in the configuration you need. Skip the thread-together, and just buy an XTR press-fit.

Unless you have a sizing problem, you're better off with the units that are simply designed to not creak from the get go (ie: no metal-metal contact). Metal bikes tend to have less issues with poor-fitting bottom brackets, imo.
 
When it comes to the creaking, from what i've read I have two options. Installing a press fit BB with retaining compound, or a thread together PF bottom bracket.
My problem with the retaining compound is that it kinda seems like a gamble whether it works or not, it's pretty expensive, and I might create a headache for myself when I have to remove the BB cups next time

Don't fear the retaining compound, I wouldn't install a press fit assembly without it. It works fantastic and it's no big deal to remove the bb when the time comes. Also it's a good idea to use it when you install chainrings on dub cranksets because that interface is notorious for producing phantom creaks.

Speaking of which, are you absolutely sure that the bb itself is causing the creak? We have a saying at the shop, "it's never the bb". Well maybe not never but surprisingly it's relatively rare. Whenever a customer comes in to have us fix their creaky bb it almost always turns out to be something else.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Don't fear the retaining compound, I wouldn't install a press fit assembly without it. It works fantastic and it's no big deal to remove the bb when the time comes. Also it's a good idea to use it when you install chainrings on dub cranksets because that interface is notorious for producing phantom creaks.

Speaking of which, are you absolutely sure that the bb itself is causing the creak? We have a saying at the shop, "it's never the bb". Well maybe not never but surprisingly it's relatively rare. Whenever a customer comes in to have us fix their creaky bb it almost always turns out to be something else.
I'm 99.9% sure it's the BB. I'm pretty meticulous when it comes to maintenance and checked over everything, and I also changed a bunch of components on the bike while I was still using the same BB.

I only hear the creak when i'm pedalling out of the saddle. In the winter the creak goes away, then it comes back as it gets warmer. The frame isn't exactly an example of fine craftmanship either, the BB shell looks like it was carved out with a butter knife.

When it comes to the BB I guess the question is should I get a thread together aftermarket BB, or a stock press fit BB + retaining compound and activator which costs about the same as a thread together aftermarket BB...
 
I'm 99.9% sure it's the BB.
No offense but that's what a lot of people who bring bikes into our shop say. There are dozens of things that can cause creaking when only out of the saddle and weather can affect many different components. I try to isolate bb noises by grabbing the crankarms when they're at 12 and 6 o'clock and rocking them hard back and forth. If it's the bb I can generally get it to make noise when doing that.

Either way though I highly recommend the retaining compound. If you do replace the bb I'd get a basic sram dub and install it with compound and see how it goes.

And check that chainring interface, as mentioned it's notorious!
 
Discussion starter · #7 · (Edited)
No offense but that's what a lot of people who bring bikes into our shop say. There are dozens of things that can cause creaking when only out of the saddle and weather can affect many different components. I try to isolate bb noises by grabbing the crankarms when they're at 12 and 6 o'clock and rocking them hard back and forth. If it's the bb I can generally get it to make noise when doing that.

Either way though I highly recommend the retaining compound. If you do replace the bb I'd get a basic sram dub and install it with compound and see how it goes.

And check that chainring interface, as mentioned it's notorious!
I've taken off the chainring multiple times. I usually clean things up there when i'm doing a deeper drivetrain clean. Since I owned the bike i've had different pedals on it, new chain, new rear wheel, changed the linkage bearings, new shock, different shock mounting hardware, new dropper, new headset, even had the seatstays replaced under warranty. The only constant has been the BB, and the creak has been always there.
What else could it be if it's not the BB?
 
I've taken off the chainring multiple times. I usually clean things up there when i'm doing a deeper drivetrain clean.
Next time you do it try that retaining compound if you get it- park tool chainring creak - Google Search

What else could it be if it's not the BB?
Full suspension? Pivots are a common cause of noise. Believe it or not my most common cure for "bb" creaks is a loose thru axle, I've lost count of how many bikes I've silenced just by tightening a thru axle.
 
Discussion starter · #9 · (Edited)
Full suspension? Pivots are a common cause of noise. Believe it or not my most common cure for "bb" creaks is a loose thru axle, I've lost count of how many bikes I've silenced just by tightening a thru axle.
Yes. The creak started when the bike was about ~2 months old and remained since, and I changed all the stuff I mentioned above, and also taken apart basically the whole bike mulitple times to clean and grease things since then.

The rear hub creaks if I don't grease the end caps, the lower shock mount creaks if I don't take it apart and clean it constantly, the dropper creaks sometimes, the flip chip creaks sometimes, and the CSU creaks like crazy. So the bike has a bunch of creaks that drive me crazy, this is another one on top of those, and i'm a 100% sure it's not caused by stuff like a loose thru axle. :)

I just did the math and a DUB BB + retaining compound + activator is more expensive than a Token thread together BB.

If i'm looking at things long term, I'm just not sure if I want to spend money on a system that's theoretically less durable (Shimano 24mm vs DUB 30mm) and on a fix that may or may not work (another regular PF BB + retaining compound). It also looks like the bearings themselves are easily replacable on the Token, not sure about the DUB stuff.
Maybe I should just fork out the extra cash right now on a Shimano crank + thread together BB to have less headaches in the future. Not sure. To be honest I want to throw this bike in the garbage more and more and get a hardtail with external routing, threaded BB etc.
 
Yes. The creak started when the bike was about ~2 months old and remained since, and I changed all the stuff I mentioned above, and also taken apart basically the whole bike mulitple times to clean and grease things since then.

The rear hub creaks if I don't grease the end caps, the lower shock mount creaks if I don't take it apart and clean it constantly, the dropper creaks sometimes, the flip chip creaks sometimes, and the CSU creaks like crazy. So the bike has a bunch of creaks that drive me crazy, this is another one on top of those, and i'm a 100% sure it's not caused by stuff like a loose thru axle. :)

I just did the math and a DUB BB + retaining compound + activator is more expensive than a Token thread together BB.

If i'm looking at things long term, I'm just not sure if I want to spend money on a system that's theoretically less durable (Shimano 24mm vs DUB 30mm) and on a fix that may or may not work (another regular PF BB + retaining compound). It also looks like the bearings themselves are easily replacable on the Token, not sure about the DUB stuff.
Maybe I should just fork out the extra cash right now on a Shimano crank + thread together BB to have less headaches in the future. Not sure. To be honest I want to throw this bike in the garbage more and more and get a hardtail with external routing, threaded BB etc.


That's a drag, what sort of bike is it? You should never have to grease end caps to prevent creaks and the need to constantly take apart and clean shock mounts indicates there is definitely something wrong there. You're right that simple hardtails are easier to keep quiet but obviously there are trade offs. I do think press fit gets a somewhat undeserved bad rap and often because people blame them for noises caused by something else. Not saying that's you but it is very common.

i'm a 100% sure it's not caused by stuff like a loose thru axle. :)
Ha, never say never. As mentioned it's extremely common, I run across it nearly every day and almost no one believes me when I tell them how I got their bike to shut up. People don't realize they need 12nm of torque or more.

Good luck! I actually enjoy chasing down creaks and have gotten pretty good at it over the years but then again that's my job.
 
I dreaded the PF bottom bracket when I bought my Kona. But I've used a Shimano PF BB for going on three years of west coast winter (ie. wet and filthy) without problems. As the other poster said: every creak I thought was the BB has been something else. I bought a replacement a year ago and it's still sitting on the shelf. I'd go Shimano and their BB.

If RaceFace, I'd go 24mm--I had terrible luck with the longevity of RF BB's with the 30mm axle and small bearings in the BB.

I'm guessing taking the bike somewhere for warranty work wasn't an option?
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
I dreaded the PF bottom bracket when I bought my Kona. But I've used a Shimano PF BB for going on three years of west coast winter (ie. wet and filthy) without problems. As the other poster said: every creak I thought was the BB has been something else. I bought a replacement a year ago and it's still sitting on the shelf. I'd go Shimano and their BB.

If RaceFace, I'd go 24mm--I had terrible luck with the longevity of RF BB's with the 30mm axle and small bearings in the BB.

I'm guessing taking the bike somewhere for warranty work wasn't an option?
It's a direct to consumer bike that I bought from another country. When a bearing that was supposed to be press fit just fell out of the bore I got new chainstays under warranty. But when stuff started to creak, I didn't contact the manufacturer. I'm just not sure what they would do.
 
Discussion starter · #14 · (Edited)
I really appreciate all the tips regarding what the creaking could be. But like I said I replaced about half the bike (not because I was chasing the creak, for other reasons), had everything apart multiple times, and the creak persisted. And like I said the creak goes away when the temperatures drop, and comes back when it gets warmer (same as my CSU creak, although that doesn't go away completely in the winter), most likely because of contraction and expansion.

My question was really about the best bang for the buck, most headache free option for a reliable crankset and BB. Thinking long term i'm leaning more and more towards Shimano + a Token thread together BB.
My GF's bike needs a new crankset for a 1x conversion anyways... :geek:
 
If you're that concerned about its structural 'integrity', you should look for a builder/workshop that can ream/face the bottom bracket to absolute specifications.

The tool to do so for press-fit assemblies is the same tool for reaming/facing headsets.

Imo, the same issues that we saw with outboard bottom brackets 20 years ago (poor bearing life, noise, difficulty installing cranks) are still present with press-fit, for the same reason**. It does not matter if your bottom bracket threads together, if the two sides are misaligned (they tighten against the shell faces). As far as I am aware, only one company (bbinfinite) used a design that removes any possibility of being misaligned, but it's a total pain in the ass to remove it if you ever need to.

If you are concerned with cost associated with shipping/portability, only the front triangle is strictly necessary to do the work.

**Surprisingly, BB30, specifically, does not suffer from this problem. The bearing seats in the bore (made in one operation, no chance of misaligning with itself), against a snap ring. It has other issues, though.
 
Discussion starter · #16 · (Edited)
My creak adventure continues.

I bit the bullet and ordered a Race Face Aeffect R crankset and a Token Ninja thread together BB. I just tried to install the BB today.
Well, it turns out the BB shell is so oversized that I can install and remove the BB cups by hand easily. Before I took everything apart, I noticed that one of the original SRAM DUB cups has walked itself out a little and it was out of the frame about 0.5-1mm.

Token makes a +0.1mm oversized BB, i'll see if I can return my current BB and order one of those. But i'm thinking about just gluing the oversized BBs in forever, or more like until I finally throw this frame in the thrash. But with the Token BB you can just change the bearings and don't have to remove the "sleeve" from the frame.
I have some Loctite 648 at home, would this work? The sleeves on the BB cups are some kind of nylon material, and the frame is carbon. Do I really need primer? What does it do exactly? I can only find it in 150ml bottles, it's so expensive, and i'm so sick on spending money on these annoying issues.
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
New bike?
That's the plan, but not for a while. For now I want to get rid of all the creaks, work out some small kinks and find my preferences with some other components.
Then I think I'm gonna transfer (almost) all my stuff and try a metal hardtail frame with a threaded BB, external cable routing etc.
 
My creak adventure continues.

I bit the bullet and ordered a Race Face Aeffect R crankset and a Token Ninja thread together BB. I just tried to install the BB today.
Well, it turns out the BB shell is so oversized that I can install and remove the BB cups by hand easily. Before I took everything apart, I noticed that one of the original SRAM DUB cups has walked itself out a little and it was out of the frame about 0.5-1mm.

Token makes a +0.1mm oversized BB, i'll see if I can return my current BB and order one of those. But i'm thinking about just gluing the oversized BBs in forever, or more like until I finally throw this frame in the thrash. But with the Token BB you can just change the bearings and don't have to remove the "sleeve" from the frame.
I have some Loctite 648 at home, would this work? The sleeves on the BB cups are some kind of nylon material, and the frame is carbon. Do I really need primer? What does it do exactly? I can only find it in 150ml bottles, it's so expensive, and i'm so sick on spending money on these annoying issues.

I don't know about the Token but some of those thread together bb's I've seen have a loose fit but seem to work fine in the end.

I've had really good results with retaining compound and press fit bb's. I use Park Tool brand and always use the primer with it. I'm not sure about the 648.

I wouldn't use retaining compound on the side of a thread together bb that's supposed to turn during installation though.
 
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