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zen_

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I bought a set of used Terrene Wazia tires over the summer to help train year round outside without the terror of normal tires going over patches of re-frozen ice mainly, but I don't know anything about their actual use to be honest. Looking for some thoughts from real people beyond the "I googled it" info.

  • Best tool for installing studs
  • Best all-around stud for fat tires (current tires are about 70% 45nrth large concave, 30% normal size concave). Any cons with the bigger studs specifically?
  • Tips for minimizing the amount of stud loss
  • General tips for riding studded tires on known ice or suspected ice (e.g. below snow). What are the traction limits in straight lines, how do you change your cornering on roads?
  • For those of you who may do winter gravel races on fat bikes, how do you decide between a fast roller like the JJ vs. studded tires when it's not obvious which one to choose?
 
#2 ·
I will speak to studs in general.
I use the standard and long proven 45N studs and tool.
In most cases, the stsndard studs are fine.
As far as riding the goes? Just let experience teach you. Stsrt slow and easy and work your way up as confidence build.
They work much better than you might imagine.
 
#3 ·
I have not heard of anyone installing studs in used tires. Not recommended. Dirt and fine particles migrate into the holes and can fill up the holes, and/or when you try/install studs in the holes, there is a lot higher probability that they will not install properly and possibly come out. (This being written, if the stud holes appear to be clean or perhaps you are able to pressure wash out the holes, go for it. As stated above, stud tools and studs are readily available, and it is very easy and fast to learn how to install them.)
 
#5 ·
my only tidbit of info is.. on a NEW tire..inflated up so you have something to push against.. use glue ( gorilla glue for example.. test on used tire to see if itl melt the tire rubber.. shouldnt) dab of glue.. insert stud.. dab of glue. insert stud... its a long tedious process.. you can probably dab 3-5 hole in a shot.. gorilla glue doesnt dry instaltly and bonds well.. stay a little flexible compared to instant CyanoAcrylates glues.. my experience comes from prepping tires for winter rallying ;) if this technique keeps studs on tires with 450WHP.. i doubt our meager outputs matter ;)

ive studded tires for winter bicycle use.. but it was a much different system lol long story short.. since your buying a new tire to stud.. maybe look into prestudded ones??
 
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#8 ·
rocwandrer said:
I'll add to this - nobody says it, but 91-99% isopropyl alcohol works significantly better than 70%.
Click to expand...
Vodka or Whisky work the best. Insert one stud, take a sip. Passes the time much better installing 180 or more studs per tire, and for us old people, the alcohol keeps ones hands from cramping up due to gripping the insert tool, along with the required angled-push-twist-straighten! Just saying.....
 
#9 ·
TiJoe said:
Vodka or Whisky work the best. Insert one stud, take a sip. Passes the time much better installing 180 or more studs per tire, and for us old people, the alcohol keeps ones hands from cramping up due to gripping the insert tool, along with the required angled-push-twist-straighten! Just saying.....
Click to expand...
just for... scientific data... how old are you?? i mean if its remotely close to my age... im 43 btw... ill give it a 'shot' and chime in :D
 
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#10 ·
if i may add a question.. who has experience on different stud types?? im more intereted in the 45nrt XL concave studs.. is this so ice specefic that on pavement.. your likelier to slip?? and how do they work on ice?? there are other companies who seem to offer more than your basic stud.. on a sheet of ice.. basic studs on my snowshoe XLs are ok-ish.. choppy icy... like slush thats been walked on and froze into ice.. they fare alright as well.. would i rather have less slippage? sure!.. is it ever going to be perfect?? likely not lol its ice! but as im wondering upgrading the studdies for the fatty.. one wonders what the point of less return on investment is... some studded tires are under 300 a pop.. others over 300 a pop.. usually a 60-80 dollar difference here in Canada.. the kinda thing ... if i dont get much more for my money, it aint worth it to me.. or if it causes slips where there were none before.. id back it off a little
 
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#11 ·
Marty01 said:
if i may add a question.. who has experience on different stud types?? im more intereted in the 45nrt XL concave studs.. is this so ice specefic that on pavement.. your likelier to slip?? and how do they work on ice?? there are other companies who seem to offer more than your basic stud.. on a sheet of ice.. basic studs on my snowshoe XLs are ok-ish.. choppy icy... like slush thats been walked on and froze into ice.. they fare alright as well.. would i rather have less slippage? sure!.. is it ever going to be perfect?? likely not lol its ice! but as im wondering upgrading the studdies for the fatty.. one wonders what the point of less return on investment is... some studded tires are under 300 a pop.. others over 300 a pop.. usually a 60-80 dollar difference here in Canada.. the kinda thing ... if i dont get much more for my money, it aint worth it to me.. or if it causes slips where there were none before.. id back it off a little
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I've had XL, triple-crown, concave, standard, etc.

The only things that matter are stud count, penetration depth, and carbide-tipped longivity.

Too long penetration depth will cause the spokes to rip out, so you can't really go too far, but too close to the knob and obviously it won't be gripping.

Shape means nothing. Tried em all. Tire stud pattern/count makes far more difference. There are some really cheap studs with non-carbide tips. Do not get those. Otherwise, go for the cheapest ones that have the right length. For normal studded tires, you get a lot more pressure on the studs. Fat tires never work as well. The more the stud-count, the better with fat tires. Best I've had on ice is the Johnny 5 and it's massive stud count. On many studded fat tires, the studs just make your ice-slipping more predicable and safer, they don't keep you from slipping.
 
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Discussion starter · #12 ·
TiJoe said:
I have not heard of anyone installing studs in used tires. Not recommended.
Click to expand...
I may have forgot to mention they are used tires /w studs already installed, a mix of the 45nrth XL and standard concave. Was debating whether to remove the remaining standard studs for XL's for consistency, don't know if that matters though.
 
#13 ·
zen_ said:
I may have forgot to mention they are used tires /w studs already installed, a mix of the 45nrth XL and standard concave. Was debating whether to remove the remaining standard studs for XL's for consistency, don't know if that matters though.
Click to expand...
Ride like they are.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Studs = good

More studs = better (better for resisting pullout on pavement, too)

[Please stop reading here. That's really as far as you need to go.]

Longer studs grip better but people say they pull out more (hasn't been my experience but I don't doubt it).

Larger circumference studs are a little better, especially if they have a relief in the center (based on the marks they make in the ice, generally the more area and depth a stud damages the ice, the more that generates grip)

For the above reason, sharp points are not as good as square edges. Those are sold because people Intuit that a sharp point would work better, but it doesn't.
 
#15 ·
rocwandrer said:
Studs = good

More = studs better (better for resisting pullout on pavement, too)

[Please stop reading here. That's really as far as you need to go.]

Longer studs grip better but people say they pull out more (hasn't been my experience but I don't doubt it).

Larger circumference studs are a little better, especially if they have a relief in the center (based on the marks they make in the ice, generally the more area and depth a stud damages the ice, the more that generates grip)

For the above reason, sharp points are not as good as square edges. Those are sold because people Intuit that a sharp point would work better, but it doesn't.
Click to expand...
Much of this depends on the surface and the reality of time on said surface…contact.
Even at very slow speeds the time an individual stud is engaged is short.
I suspect this is why pattern and numbers is more important.
 
#16 ·
For stud insertion get a stud tool for the studs you have and use Windex for lube. I've never tried IPA, so cannot comment. Regardless, a little lube goes a long way. It'll save you time and aches.

I wouldn't bother pulling old studs out if not worn. Just put more in as you lose 'em.

I've run Wrathlordes and J5's studded. The Wraths come with the XL studs. I have the large concave in the J5's. Both have been great, but I have been on ice where the wraths still slid quite a bit. That was only once. I don't think anybody did well that day. The wrathlordes are 4.2", so more of a dedicated ice tire. I went with the J5's because they are both large volume and can be studded, which means I can run the same tire for ice days or big snow days. @mikesee 's comments from his testing led me to the J5s.
 
#17 ·
Jayem said:
Best I've had on ice is the Johnny 5 and it's massive stud count. On many studded fat tires, the studs just make your ice-slipping more predicable and safer, they don't keep you from slipping.
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J5s huh.. how....bad do they roll??

what ive now does exactly as you desribe.. they still slip.. just.. you can catch them kinda thing.. so i file that as.. manageable.. id like to improve the roll, ice grip and the horrible self steer my snowshoes XLs have... J5s are on my radar.. as are cake eaters and D5s.. just not ready to jump 600ish dollars for a set of either of those..
 
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#18 ·
Since we are talking studded fat tire grip on ice: On flats and climbs up to about 6% grades, I am happy with my studded tires. But over 6% grades, grip decreases exponentially. The worst case scenario is when one gets an inch or 2 of fresh snow on icy trails, where hikers have packed the old snow and it has turned into ice. I see fresh snow, then discover that there is ice below. I've gone down numerous times hoping the new snow would give the tires better grip, and the studs would dig into the ice. (NOT!)
 
#19 ·
If you want studs that don't slip on ice, get the 1/2" Kold Kutters, screw 'em in from outside, and secure inside with a plastic-nylon nut. Grind down the protruding tips inside, if desired. That setup holds tubeless just fine.

Cheap, heavy, but brutal grip compared to any stock studs, especially on sheer ice. They shred, literally, so I only use them on the front tire. On the rear tire, any unintended contact while the tire is rotating can be quite painful.
 
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