Just swapped on one of these forks and figured it would be plush absolutely everywhere and plowing rock gardens it feels harsher than my DVO Onyx fork. Feels like the mid stroke is plusher than the Onyx but off the top isn't as nice feeling. Is this just a result of the plain jane Grip damper? Will a Grip 2 damper be nicer feeling?
Z1 coil harsh?
bdreynolds7
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I've heard of this, and it makes sense why it traps air. The only way I can think to help negate excessive pressure is to tighten the foot nuts with the fork compressed 1-2". It might actually help the "off the top" feeling as well since there will be a slight vacuum in both sides. Being a suspension guru yourself, have you ever tried this?
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Doesn’t the Z1 use same damper and bottoms as a Fox Rhythm 36? I have a Rhythm 36 that I added a Vorsprung Smashpot too and have nothing but praise. Wondering if I’m dealing with trapped air too?
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I feel like any fork you seal top and bottom traps air, unless you have air bleeders on the back of the fork to purge any pressure inside the lowers.
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Preload is one turn and compression is wide open. 200lbs geared up. I know this would not work for most folks but I love it. I don’t do any big gaps or drops but ride pretty chunky desert trails.
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Smashpot is way more open internally so doesn't ramp as much.
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Firstly, I love the way this fork has progression, though I do wish it was slightly adjustable like some of the Marzocchi coil forks of old.
I’ve just got rid of my 2021 factory 36 grip2 vvc because of the harshness on fast repeated hits.
For most of my riding in the UK the forks felt fine & did what I need. However, I’ve just returned from racing the Megavalanche in France & experienced some very harsh high speed spikes. It felt like the forks was going rigid on high speed very rough alpine descents. Slow speed it was fine, but at high speeds I was getting numb hands just trying to hang on. I thought it might be packing down, but it was more just “hanging” in the mid travel.
I’m 204lbs fully kitted & around 20-25% sag was achieved with 107psi - I also have 2 volume adjusters/tokens fitted. According to the o ring in my stanchions I was regularly using all but about 18mm of travel.
After numerous changes, which ultimately led to zero high speed compression & rebound, I started backing off the slow speed adjustments. I was surprised to find that the slow speed rebound was having the biggest influence on the forks ability to recover in any situation.
The problem I then had was that the fork was too active in slow speed manoeuvres (down steep rock faces with backside over the backwheel) & felt unstable, & when shifting body weight around to lift bike over obstacles etc. and felt very unbalanced front to rear.
The high speed stuff felt a little better but not great. Amongst the forks I’ve previously owned, the ones I most highly rated have been the Marzocchi 55 rc3ti & Bos Deville (the real stand out performer for me); riding similar terrain I didn’t once get arm pump, let alone numb hands. Perhaps I’m being naive but I would’ve thought a modern fox should’ve been at least as good as these…
Anyway, fast forward & I’ve replaced the factory 36 with the Marzocchi Z1 coil; by any measure this should be a step backwards, however I’m finding them faaar better (green/firm spring fitted as per Marzocchi spring table).
In terms of slow speed, the compression adjuster is very effective. It’s definitely not a lockout, but the range is enough to negate any seated pedal bobbing, and I can still dial out movement on standing sprints, techy climbs & slow trialsy moves. Also if I forget to adjust the sweep dial back, if I suddenly plough into hard & fast downhill sections, it still opens up for any high speed compression.
However, having said all that, what has the biggest influence on this fork is the rebound adjustment. Similar to the grip2 on my factory 36, rebound seems to have a marked effect on high speed compression.
With that in mind, I’ve backed off the rebound by about 3 clicks fewer than Marzocchi recommend & it’s pretty much spot on.
Dougal, can you explain any of this?
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Maybe there is some magic in the Grip damper? I'll definitely try running less rebound when I come around to tuning. I wonder if the Grip 2 damper just doesn't flow oil fast enough.
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Steve at Vorsprung reviews it for an episode of his Tuesday Tune series & seems genuinely impressed with it. That was a few years back when it first appeared.
I’ve since seen him review the grip2 & he also seems genuinely impressed with the tech that Fox have developed, but in contrast, seems less impressed with the actual adjustment it makes (I think it was his Fox 38 review).
There isn’t anywhere I can think of in the UK midlands that gets anywhere near replicating the trails in Alpe D’Huez, so my satisfaction with the “budget” grip damper may be short lived - or at least until I find somewhere to really thrash it. I am optimistic though; so far it feels a lot better in any situation than the grip2 it’s replaced.
I’ve since seen him review the grip2 & he also seems genuinely impressed with the tech that Fox have developed, but in contrast, seems less impressed with the actual adjustment it makes (I think it was his Fox 38 review).
There isn’t anywhere I can think of in the UK midlands that gets anywhere near replicating the trails in Alpe D’Huez, so my satisfaction with the “budget” grip damper may be short lived - or at least until I find somewhere to really thrash it. I am optimistic though; so far it feels a lot better in any situation than the grip2 it’s replaced.
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For average Joe Schmo like me, maybe even below average, the Fox Rhythm 36 with Vorsprung Smashpot coil and Grip 1, performs just as well as Fox Factory 36 with Grip 2, if not better.
Neither can erase bike park brake bumps though 🙃
Neither can erase bike park brake bumps though 🙃
Where do you have the GRIP dial set?
A closed GRIP will provide much more base valve compression damping than VVC GRIP2 at any setting.
Th mid-valve compression “harshness” seems common across GRIP/ GRIP2/ Charger2.x, which has one symptom that compression damping increases with closer LSR. Stock Charger 2.x has more MV issue than Fox per Dougal’s comment on the charger 2 mod thread.
Somewhere Dougal mentioned the GRIP problem is unit to unit variation, and a tight BV stack height working window.
Interestingly, Fox uses softer BV shim stack on the e-bike variant of GRIP, and uses less preload by adding a spacer shim on the remote variant.
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My bike is a Deviate Highlander with Ohlins TTX22m rear shock using a 550lb spring.
I’m 200lb kitted, using the green/firm spring, without any clicks of preload. On fast downhill, rocky roots trails it’s very smooth & active with the compression fully open but for natural trail riding, including slow techy climbs, undulating singletrack and fast woodsy loops I have the compression set at 3 o’clock. This gives me ample support to push against, but gives up its travel on high speed compressions.
Marzocchi recommends 7-5 clicks of rebound from fully closed for my weight & this spring. It felt ever so slightly harsh at that so I backed it off to 10 clicks from fully closed & it feels pretty perfect & the front & rear of the bike feel perfectly matched.
The speed this bike carries is just ridiculous. At least once every ride I giggle out loud, usually when I’ve overshot a corner 😂
I’m 200lb kitted, using the green/firm spring, without any clicks of preload. On fast downhill, rocky roots trails it’s very smooth & active with the compression fully open but for natural trail riding, including slow techy climbs, undulating singletrack and fast woodsy loops I have the compression set at 3 o’clock. This gives me ample support to push against, but gives up its travel on high speed compressions.
Marzocchi recommends 7-5 clicks of rebound from fully closed for my weight & this spring. It felt ever so slightly harsh at that so I backed it off to 10 clicks from fully closed & it feels pretty perfect & the front & rear of the bike feel perfectly matched.
The speed this bike carries is just ridiculous. At least once every ride I giggle out loud, usually when I’ve overshot a corner 😂
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Yeah all of it.
The GRIP damper also has mid-valve choking issues. The faster and rougher the ground you ride the more this will aggravate you. Riding groomed trails at moderate speeds you may not even notice.
The GRIP dampers run a firm rebound shim stack so the rebound needle runs mostly open which helps it compared to the GRIP2 dampers. But you'll notice compression get worse as rebound is closed.
The stock valving has a bit of variation due to the way the damper is built, but compression fully open is very soft with little support (apart from the choking on sharp terrain) and gets very firm as it adds preload to the shim stacks.
Modifications to fix the midvalve and tune it in solve all those issues. But it's a fiddly tune which involves finally shimming the stack in 0.02mm increments to get it within range.
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I think that dial is essentially an on/off switch for locking it out rather than actually being LSC adjustment of any kind?
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Changes so fast it may as well be. Fox have two GRIP variants. GRIP and FIT-GRIP.
FIT-GRIP has more clicks on the comp knob.
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Well I tried a mix of everything suggested. Swapped from the blue to the green spring which means I run little to no preload to get to sag, compression open and rebound a few more clicks out than recommended and the fork is much nicer on the hands. The stiffer spring feels like the front end stays up better too.
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Almost sounds like the softer spring you where hitting the ramp up of built up air in the spring stanchion?
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Yeah possibly. I had to run the most amount of preload to get the right sag number and even then it was a little too much sag.
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Oh yeah to soft for sure
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This chart was far more useful than the one on the back of the fork...
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