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What's the deal with the Grail/Grizl geometry?

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McGuillicuddy

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
I've been looking closely at gravel bike geometries. They all seem to be variations on a theme - less reach, more stack, slacker head tube angle, longer wheelbase, etc compared to their road bike counterparts. Except the Canyon offerings are both just as long and with less stack than my CAAD12 road bike. It looks to me to be an aggressive road bike with a slack head tube angle and a slanted toptube. Yet none of the reviews I've read seem to key in on this and one would get the feeling that it fits like any other gravel bike. Am I missing something? Am I over-rotating on these geometry numbers?

Their sizing is also weird. At 5'10" I'm in the 54/56cm range on most road/gravel bikes (or M/L). But in Canyon I'm an S. Not sure what the deal is there but it's a bit alarming for me to be ordering a small especially since I can't test ride one beforehand.
 
#2 ·
You’re right, Canyon’s gravel bikes run big, and trend toward shorter stack. Definitely important to compare their geo to bikes you’re comfortable on to get an idea of fit.

With that said, I don’t find the fit of my Grizl unusual or uncomfortable. I’m 6’ 1.5” and ride a large with an 80mm stem, 20mm of spacers below the stem, and Ritchey bars with less reach and drop than stock. For me, this setup is perfect, and I’ve done plenty of 5+ hour rides without fit or comfort issues.

One thing to be aware of is toe overlap if you size down. Even on my large, I get toe overlap when I run a wide front tire (50mm+).

I assume you don’t have a way to throw a leg over one before buying?
 
Discussion starter · #4 · (Edited)
spoonrobot said:
I think the numbers are weird to you because you are looking at the wrong size. The bike is designed to push out the front wheel, wider bars, and shorter stem. If you ride a 54/56 you should be looking at the M, not the S.
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I'm just going by what Canyon is telling me based on my height/inseam. The M has imore stack and reach and longer HTT than my CAAD12 (but same S:R ratio) and definitely looks like a larger overally bike than my Cannondale 56cm. The stem on my road bike is 10mm longer than what comes on the Grizl so that balances out a bit. But we're still left with the Grizl having a very similar geometry to my road bike and not the more relaxed geometry most gravel bikes (e.g. Warbird, Topstone, Revolt) have.
 
#5 ·
McGuillicuddy said:
I'm just going by what Canyon is telling me based on my height/inseam. The M has imore stack and reach and longer HTT than my CAAD12 (but same S:R ratio) and definitely looks like a larger overally bike than my Cannondale 56cm. The stem on my road bike is 10mm longer than what comes on the Grizl so that balances out a bit. But we're still left with the Grizl having a very similar geometry to my road bike and not the more relaxed geometry most gravel bikes (e.g. Warbird, Topstone, Revolt) have.
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I have found Canyons sizing guide always skews small, especially for mountain bikes. It’s best to size off the geometry chart.
 
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#6 ·
Many gravel bikes are intended to use a shorter stem, so thru will have a longer reach than a similar sized road bike. This puts the front wheel farther ahead, reducing toe overlap and adding stability for the descents.

I believe that Canyon publishes "reach+" and "stack+" on their charts. Those are the measurements to the center of the handlebars, and that is a better way to compare fits because it sounds for the stem length.
 
#7 ·
Small? WTF!! as has been clearly established, at 5'10'' you are at least a medium, and in some brands a m/l or large. Gravel is different to different people, and companies and countries. It doesn't sound like it will align for you, but there are plenty of choices that are more grrravel, instead of bumpy road. Maybe look at other options like the Warbird, Topstone, Revolt mentioned here, oh, and about 20 other top contenders without confusing geometry that's barely more than a road bike. Just because Pete Stetina races it, don't mean it will work for you.
 
#9 ·
McGuillicuddy said:
I've been looking closely at gravel bike geometries. They all seem to be variations on a theme - less reach, more stack, slacker head tube angle, longer wheelbase, etc compared to their road bike counterparts. Except the Canyon offerings are both just as long and with less stack than my CAAD12 road bike. It looks to me to be an aggressive road bike with a slack head tube angle and a slanted toptube. Yet none of the reviews I've read seem to key in on this and one would get the feeling that it fits like any other gravel bike. Am I missing something? Am I over-rotating on these geometry numbers?

Their sizing is also weird. At 5'10" I'm in the 54/56cm range on most road/gravel bikes (or M/L). But in Canyon I'm an S. Not sure what the deal is there but it's a bit alarming for me to be ordering a small especially since I can't test ride one beforehand.
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They actually have more reach compared to the respective road bikes because they are meant to be run with 10-20mm shorter stems.

I'm 5'-7" and I have an almost 32" inseam and I went with an XS for my Grizl and it has worked fantastic. I also use my gravel bike for actual gravel and double-track roads, so the geometry at 1/2 degree slacker on the seat-tube and 2 degrees slacker on the head tube compared to my Giant Defy road bike is spot on--it's not supposed to be a mountain bike.

The "S" Canyon Grizl has a 56.2cm top tube--nothing short or small about it at all.

FWIW
Giant Defy Size S--74 Seat Angle, 72.5 Head Angle, 53cm top tube, 90mm stem, 995mm wheelbase, 420mm chainstay
Canyon Grizl Size XS--73.5 Seat Angle, 70.5 Head Angle, 54cm top tube, 70mm stem, 1012mm wheelbase, 420mm chainstay

The cockpit is 10mm shorter overall. Reach is a distant third relative to virtual top tube and cockpit length on bikes you actually pedal (like how we used to size bikes in the "old" days).

There are other points on the geometry table that need to be factored in to get a "feel" for how a bike will handle. The head angle is one, but so is the wheelbase and chainstay length. While the measurements are small by absolute standards, they all add up to make the bike fit the same as my road bike yet just a more stable version.
 
#10 ·
turnerbikes said:
Small? WTF!! as has been clearly established, at 5'10'' you are at least a medium, and in some brands a m/l or large. Gravel is different to different people, and companies and countries. It doesn't sound like it will align for you, but there are plenty of choices that are more grrravel, instead of bumpy road. Maybe look at other options like the Warbird, Topstone, Revolt mentioned here, oh, and about 20 other top contenders without confusing geometry that's barely more than a road bike. Just because Pete Stetina races it, don't mean it will work for you.
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Nominal sizing means absolutely nothing. Look at the geometry table and look up the virtual top tube lengths. As I mentioned in my post above, the "SMALL" Grizl has a 56.2cm top tube. It makes it confusing for consumers, and they really should just standardize sizing by going off the virtual top tube lengths i.e. a size "56" gets you a bike with a 56cm top tube.
 
#14 ·
twowheelmotion said:
Did you use the sizing calculator on the website when you bought yours? They suggested XS to me as well. I'm 5'10"
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Canyon suggested an XS and I am within the statistical bell curve for their sizing (and for a 54cm top tube, see my comment on sizing below). I've found that any sizing calculator that asks for an inseam (like Canyon), will heavily weight your inseam length. Your 30" is short for someone 5'-10", while my nearly 32" inseam is long for someone 5'-7".

I plugged in your numbers and they mention it explicitly that based on your leg length, that's the size they recommend (liability and have some clearance when you dismount). After you plug in your numbers and hit calculate, go click on the size chart again and it states "we recommend a size XS based on your inner leg length."

In either case, I would have picked an M for you as well, longer torso relative to leg length, and that this is a gravel bike, so the higher stack height is not an issue.

Back when I was actually doing bike fits and before the prevalence of sloping top tube road bikes, most drop-bar sizes would be in 2cm increments, which means most people could fit on 3 different sizes, and we could fit them comfortably on all 3. We would have the classic (average fit), the modern race fit (one size smaller to take advantage of the lower stack height, and run a long stem 90-120mm), and last was the randonee fit (one size larger, taller stack height, shorter stem 60-80mm, more upright posture, think old 10-speed bikes). Using myself as an example, I would fit fine on a 51cm, 53cm, or 55cm top tube road bike. If the top tubes were sized even, then I would probably only fit on a 52cm or 54cm.
 
#15 ·
XC Only said:
I plugged in your numbers and they mention it explicitly that based on your leg length, that's the size they recommend
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If I had to do it all over again, I would have bought the large. If I had zero clue about bike fitting, and was some rando ordered an XS per their site suggestions, I would have not been happy. The core issue with internet bike shop. No touchy, no feely, no good.
 
#17 ·
Canyon set me up as XS. I ride medium everything, or '54cm' classic road bike size.

Oh well.... I ordered it based on others reporting my same dimensions and they got XS too and they say it fits.

Grizl SL 8 1x
will toss on a Redshift bouncy stem and spuds.
Hopefully next week will be shakedown rides

Image
 
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#18 ·
I have a 30" inseam. I have an "all-road/gravel" bike that has very similar measurements to a Trek Domane 54cm.

Canyon recommends a Small size for its Grizzl.

They had a local demo, and the best fit for me was a Medium, which is consistent with ...
twowheelmotion said:
As a Grizl owner .... I have a 30" inseam and ride a medium.
Click to expand...
Try before you buy, if you can. They have demos, or you can find someone who has the bike, or visit Sandy Eggo.
 
#19 ·
my XS Grizl fits perfectly....

canyon size recommended for my dimensions 5'8" 30" inseam= XS
...it fits
 
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