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Playful goldilocks bike frame - coming from a Kona Process 153

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MrNico

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Kona Process 153 CR 29 • Santa Cruz Chameleon C 29 • NS Bikes Majesty
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Looking for a new “can do everything” bike frame, since its predecessor has found a new owner without my consent (i.e. stolen). I’m coming from a Kona Process 153 CR 29 G2 size medium, which I absolutely loved after dialling the suspension with a MegNeg can to increase mid-stroke support (wasn’t able to find a sweet spot with the standard RockShox SuperDeluxe can).

I prefer poppy/playful bikes over bikes that “mute” the trail. Prefer natural or hand-built technical trails with tight sections (trial moves), features to pump/pop, steep bits… well I guess you call it “trail riding”. I don’t care about KOMs (and am certainly not the fastest rider on the mountain), but would say I’m a very precise rider and can typically ride any type of trail with confidence. Living in the Jura region of Switzerland, my everyday trails are typically a bit awkward, tight, steep and with lots of rocks/roots, search for "Mervelier" on Trailforks. I also love to go on multi-day adventures in the alps where hike-a-bikes and lots of D+/- are the norm. So good pedalling manners/reasonable weight are equally import to me.

I’m 33 years old, 76kg and 178cm. Would consider myself quite fit/strong.

In short - I’m looking for the goldilocks bike like everyone. I like to build my own bikes, so prefer frame-only options. From most important to least important, I’m looking for:
  • Ride characteristics
  • …
  • Serviceability (e.g. really appreciate bearings in the links instead of the frame)
  • Warranty service (have had a few frames warrantied in the last decade with mixed experiences)
  • Locally sourced (Europe>North America>Asia)
  • …
  • Price (though not willing to pay more than 5000USD for a frame)

Apart from my beloved Kona Process 153 I’ve recently ridden/demoed the following bikes (though not with the same tires unfortunately):

Ibis Ripmo M - very good allrounder bike, excellent grip on technical climbs, good climber on fireroads, good position for me. Very stable downhill & incredible grip (maybe due to Kenda tires?)! Not quite as poppy and easy to manual as expected.

Santa Cruz Bronson M - loved it downhill (very playful and corners so nice), but uphill position felt very weird, feels too small (L better?).

Santa Cruz Hightower M - meh, ok but didn’t excell at anything. Uphill better position than Bronson and doesn‘t feel too small.

Specialized SJ Evo S4 (low setting) - not my cup of tea. Uphill feels very draggy and slow (not due to suspension, maybe also tires). Downhill very stable and mutes everything. Doesn‘t feel very energetic and hard to manual. Very stable for jumping. In high setting a bit more pop.

Pivot Switchblde M - liked it a lot! Feels like a Rocket/CC bike uphill! Downhill very energetic and poppy. Tracks well over roots but you can feel them. Feels a touch small (especially uphill).

Pivot Switchblade L - Feels a lot bigger than medium, very good position for climbing, downhill a bit to long for my taste. Few unexpected pedal strikes. Not really poppy compared to the M i rode (shock tune?). Specced dropper feels too short in steep descents, but there‘s room for a longer one!

Norco Sight M - liked it. Uphill similar to Hightower (between Pivot and Specialized). Downhill quite fun and energetic despite the slack headangle, interesting!

From those I’d probably pick the Pivot Switchblade, though I feel I’m between sizes. Also I’m interested in the following bikes:

Kona Process 153 CR G3 - no info on availability/pricing, no demo possible atm

Scor 4060 ST - a bit worried on build quality (see velovert and pinkbike forum). Will demo in the future.

WeAreOne Arrival 150 - I’m a bit confused, some say it doesn’t handle slow tech well (NSMB), some say it does (Loamwolf). Demo near impossible in Europe.


So, MTBR what do you think:
Will a WR1 Arrival handle slow tech nicely? Is it worth waiting to be able to demo the new Kona Process? Which mountainbike have I forgotten?
 
#3 ·
If you can demo the Stevo again, maybe try it in high/middle. What tires were on it?
The full low setting is basically park bike mode, but the chainstay is definitely longish no matter what.

As far as the Arrival, everything I’ve heard indicates it’s more of a pinner than a partier - not sure that would be the best route. Maybe would be worth demoing a Ripmo again and trying a bit more pressure in the shock or something.
 
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Discussion starter · #4 · (Edited)
SouthSoundRider said:
Santa Cruz 5010. That is all.
Click to expand...
Why not. I've had many 27.5 Bikes and liked them a lot (though not recently - somehow decided to stick with 29). Will need to test one. Have you ridden one/own one? Do you have comparisons to any of the bikes I have ridden?

One of my favourite bikes of all times was the G1 Kona Process 134 - man that bike was fun (also not the best pedalling bike).
Image
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
snow snakes said:
If you can demo the Stevo again, maybe try it in high/middle. What tires were on it?
The full low setting is basically park bike mode, but the chainstay is definitely longish no matter what.

As far as the Arrival, everything I’ve heard indicates it’s more of a pinner than a partier - not sure that would be the best route. Maybe would be worth demoing a Ripmo again and trying a bit more pressure in the shock or something.
Click to expand...
I actually tried the Stevo in both high and low. The high setting had a bit more pop but still muted the trail a lot. Also played a bit with shock settings (but obviously not as dialled as if it was my bike). The bike had Specialized tires on it (compared to the Maxxis DHF/DHR2 combo on most other bikes I tested), which may be part of the reason, why I thought it felt like a pig uphill. I get why many people like this bike, but I really don't think it's a great fit for me.

About the Arrival I have the same feeling, but I guess my heart hoped my brain would be wrong (I really like the entire story behind).
 
#6 ·
MrNico said:
Why not. I've had many 27.5 Bikes and liked them a lot (though not recently - somehow decided to stick with 29). Will need to test one. Have you ridden one/own one? Do you have comparisons to any of the bikes I have ridden?

One of my favourite bikes of all times was the G1 Kona Process 134 - man that bike was fun (also not the best pedalling bike).
Click to expand...
Oh I definitely own one (V4 model, not the newest V5). It's my most favorite bike of all time. Think of it as a smaller Bronson mixed with BMX. The 5010 is a jack of all trades. I can compare it to my old 2016 Stumpjumper which is pretty close to it. I have to say that VPP is my favorite suspension setup for the type of riding I do. The 5010 climbs really good especially if you install a Cascade Link.

I currently ride my 5010 on flow trails and jump lines. However I just purchased a DJ so I'm going to switch my 5010 to regular trail riding now. This bike loves to play. Thanks to my 5010, I reinvented my old riding trails and started finding cool things to jump and play along my ride. It just has that playful attitude. I'm glad Santa Cruz still has the 5010 around! I flat out refuse to give this bike up.

Here's a link to my 5010: Santa Cruz 5010 V4
 
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Discussion starter · #7 ·
SouthSoundRider said:
Oh I definitely own one (V4 model, not the newest V5). It's my most favorite bike of all time. Think of it as a smaller Bronson mixed with BMX. The 5010 is a jack of all trades. I can compare it to my old 2016 Stumpjumper which is pretty close to it. I have to say that VPP is my favorite suspension setup for the type of riding I do. The 5010 climbs really good especially if you install a Cascade Link.

I currently ride my 5010 on flow trails and jump lines. However I just purchased a DJ so I'm going to switch my 5010 to regular trail riding now. This bike loves to play. Thanks to my 5010, I reinvented my old riding trails and started finding cool things to jump and play along my ride. It just has that playful attitude. I'm glad Santa Cruz still has the 5010 around! I flat out refuse to give this bike up.

Here's a link to my 5010: Santa Cruz 5010 V4
Click to expand...
Really like your 5010 :love: The only part I'm a bit hesitant about the 5010 is in more serious terrain. Well, only demoing one will tell.

My favourite local bike shop currently has a Transition Sentinel Medium around for testing (test bike ordered for another customer), so also going to test that one this weekend.

Also they told me they had only a few customers with Scor bikes until now, but had quite a few warranty/quality issues on them and that the Scor/BMC warranty department is friendly speaking not the best around.
 
#8 ·
MrNico said:
Really like your 5010 :love: The only part I'm a bit hesitant about the 5010 is in more serious terrain. Well, only demoing one will tell.

My favourite local bike shop currently has a Transition Sentinel Medium around for testing (test bike ordered for another customer), so also going to test that one this weekend.

Also they told me they had only a few customers with Scor bikes until now, but had quite a few warranty/quality issues on them and that the Scor/BMC warranty department is friendly speaking not the best around.
Click to expand...
I had a Sentinel in the past. It's an amazing descender. The suspension system is very good for hard stuff. I didn't have any major issues climbing with the Sentinel. The rear end felt pretty solid on climbs. Transition likes to say they have "Giddy Yap" suspension and I agree! One thing I love about living in WA is that Transition is a couple hours away. I love stopping by the Transition Outpost! They have food, beer, and bikes! Transition is an awesome brand. They love hosting jump competitions and night rides. They don't care what you ride. Just come out and play with them!

I would say the 5010 can handle some pretty serious terrain. It's a trail bike so don't expect to hit any DH trails with it!
 
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Discussion starter · #9 ·
Update: I was able to test two new bikes in the last few days. Had each of them for a few days, so was also able to play with setup/suspension.

Transition Sentinel M
This was really eye-opening, because I thought I wouldn't like it but ended up liking it a lot. First off, it felt very slow climbing fireroads (I discovered later on, that there was a CushCore insert in the rear tire). Also I had a lot of trouble finding a good climbing position and ended up sliding the saddle completely to the back (still not very good and never managed to find a perfect climbing position - also the saddle was a very poor fit for me). Technical climbing was ok, but there are better bikes at this IMHO. However I absolutely LOVED it when pointed downhill. I somehow thought it would be too much of a bruiser, but that wasn't the case for me. It turns very very well and had incredible off-camber grip. Braking is also excellent, I felt I could stop wherever I wanted (also due to the TRP DH-R Evo brakes which I liked a lot as well). I was worried about the long chainstays but my body position on the bike felt very good, lots of room to move around and the bike felt very poppy and easy to manuel/nose-turn. Now it wasn't the most relaxing bike, but man was it fun when you give it a bit of body english. In technical/sketchy stuff on a flattish trail, it was a bit more of a handful to manoeuvre than other bikes.
Also the build quality of the frame was not the best IMHO and the bearings are directly placed in the carbon... but I still liked it that much, that it might be my new favourite atm (will need to find a good climbing position though).

(sorry - forgot to take a picture of the Sentinel)

Yeti SB140 (non lunch ride but with Float X shock) M
This was my first time on a Yeti since a long time and it was very interesting. I found a very good climbing position on it but never thought it pedalled well on fireroad climbs (which surprised me a bit since it had a light rear tire). I also had heel-rub on the right side. However it was an absolute beast for technical climbing. I don't know what the engineers did, but the grip/smoothening out the terrain on that bike is incredible. This also applies to downhills and it is a very easy bike to ride and not fatiguing downhill IMHO. The flipside was that it also felt a bit boring to me. It lacked a lot of pop and was quite hard to bunny hop / manual. Cornering was nowhere near the Sentinel.
The build quality of the frame seemed top notch and I think it is a very beautiful bike (a note on the build kit: Those Sram G2 brakes should be forbidden. Also speccing a X01 shifter/derailleur but a GX cassette/chain is just marketing BS). However the riding characteristics were not my cup of tea.

So right now I'm leaning towards a Transition Sentinel. Will also demo a Transition Patrol in the upcoming weeks.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Update: I spent a lot of time during the last 10 days on a Transition Patrol test bike from my local bike shop. 3 days hike-a-bike in the Swiss mountains (first time since the birth of my son 1.5 years ago 🥳) and 2 rides on local trails.

Transition Patrol M (high Setting only)
First off: I realized how I need to setup Transition bikes for me, so the climbing position feels good (this might also apply to the Sentinel/progressive geometry bikes in general?). I tend to be in between sizes but prefer to downsize for downhill/playfulness. That means, that I have to roll the bars forwards, so that the effective toptube length doesn't feel too short. Yes steering gets a bit more reactive, but nothing too dramatic.
This bike feels more enduro/dh than the Sentinel (maybe also due to the Fox 38 and X2). It surprisingly climbed better on fireroads (unfair comparison, since it didn't have inserts in the rear wheel). Doesn‘t feel like your dragging a boat uphill. Slightly better climbing position than the Sentinel for me. Even though this is a „big“ bike it still feels kinda playful, maybe a touch harder to bunny-hop/manual than the Sentinel. Very confidence inspiring on steep stuff. I have the impression that it is ok with a bit more rearward body positioning compared to the Sentinel. I kind of lost control on a steep rock chute with a few compressions in the middle of the chute and lost good body positioning. However the bike managed it just fine on its own, whereas I certainly would have went OTB on other bikes like my old Kona Process 153). Very confidence inspiring for drops/jumps. Compared to other bikes I never felt hesitant on "bigger" drops. I didn‘t notice the smaller rear wheel too much, for the better or for the worse. Yes, you can get your butt lower, but I dont think this is a position you should be in anyway (so far back) and I never felt this was an issue for me with a bigger 29 rear wheel. This was a bit surpising, since the Bronson/Hightower felt very different to me, the Patrol/Sentinel less so. One thing I struggled with though is hitting the bottom bracket (even though the bike was in the "high" setting). This was only an issue on very technical and slow trails with lots of rocks where you are not fast enough to bunny hop them. I would never ride this bike without a good bash guard. In the end I think the patrol is slightly too much bike for me for everyday riding, the Sentinel felt a bit less like a „big“ bike (only talking about DH feel). Maybe this was also due to the 36 fork on the Sentinel vs 38 on the patrol.


Other things I learnt:
  • Sram Transmission works really well but didn‘t have that wow-factor (coming from Sram Esgle AXS and/or mechanical) all the reviews talk about. Yes it shifts a bit better under load, but it still sounds horrible shifting when cranking hard. The new lever is nice though.
  • First time on Schwalbe tires since a long time. They performed very well. I still prefer the feel of Maxxis DHF/DHR2 when leaning the bike and slightly drifting before finding grip again. Compared to the Michelin tires on my friend‘s bike after 3 days of hike-a-biking in the alps they still looked kind of fresh. The side knobs on the Michelins were toast already, which was very disappointing…
  • I still don‘t like the new Sram Code RSC brakes even in its newest iteration. They lack power under heavy/long braking IMHO and are harder on the finger/hand on long descents.
  • Fox 38 is too much fork for me when not hitting jumps. I had a hard time setting up correct sag and still using full travel.
Next up: Transition Smuggler in its 150/140 version.
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
justwan naride said:
Great write ups and pics, happy to bump into this thread.

BTW personally and despite the extra weight I'd go with an alu frame for terrain like yours.
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Personally I don't care too much whether my frame is made from alu or carbon, I just think most alu frames today are overbuilt/too heavy for my weight/riding style (especially Transition - those extra kilograms are noticeable when pedalling for a long time or carrying the bike on your shoulders for a few hours). I have not broken a frame from riding since a long time (I broke 2 seatstays on a 2010 Scott Genius alu - they were thick as paper). Manufacturing issues are another story...
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Update: I had the opportunity to test the newish Transition Smuggler for 2 local rides last week. This is one of the personal bikes of my local bike shop mechanic, so also a bit a different build than the Sentinel and Patrol. It had a coil rear shock with a spring being too stiff for me (150/140 version of the smuggler) and comparably fast rolling tires (DHF Exo MaxTerra Front, DHR Exo Dual Compound back).

Transition Smuggler M (150/140 version)
This is a very different bike compared to the Sentinel and/or Patrol. It climbs slightly faster on fireroads without feeling like a XC rocket at all. Also the seated/climbing position felt better to me and I didn't need to roll the bars forward. This might also be partially due to the SQLab saddle, which I prefer a lot. The bike also feels shorter than its two bigger siblings, which is very noticeable on flattish technical terrain, where it is more manoeuvrable and less tiring. The bottom bracket felt higher as well which helped in this kind of terrain (this was a bit odd to me, since according to the Transition geometry sheets, the Smuggler should have a lower estimated bb height than the Sentinel - maybe also related to the stiff spring/not enough sag?). I also did not experience any pedal strikes when climbing (same 165mm cranks as on the Sentinel/Patrol I tested). However the biggest difference is how the bike likes to be turned. I really fell in love with the Sentinel's ability to carve when leaned over. This was not the case on the Smuggler. It seems to prefer a more classical approach to turning (turning the bars rather than leaning the bike). However it shares the same playful feel as the Sentinel/Patrol and is easy to bunny/hop and quite easy to manual. The smuggler is a very stable bike when putting the landing gears on but isn't quite as confidence inspiring when rolling in on a drop.
All in all I was a bit disappointed. This was probably due to very high expectations coming from the Sentinel and simply thinking you would loose 10mm of travel for a bit more playfulness. However it feels like a very different bike category and probably is a better well-rounded bike for many. It's just that if I would want to sacrifice a bit of that incredible carving capability of the Sentinel for more versatility, I'd rather pick a Pivot Switchblade than a Smuggler. The switchblade climbs better and feels quite similar (to the Smuggler) when pointed downhill.

Image


Other things I learnt:
  • The new Lyrik with the Charger 3 damper feels very different to the old Lyrik with the Charger 2 damper. This is only an initial impression. I must also admit, that the fork had too much pressure for my weight/not enough sag, but I didn't want to lower pressure because I didn't wan't to unbalance the bike handling (the rear shock was a coil with a spring too stiff for me). I feel like the fork has lost a lot of sensitivity since the update.
 
#16 ·
So, I don't think I saw this.

Why were you wanting to get rid of the Process, and/or what were you wanting to "change" about it?

I rode a 2018 Process 153 AL 29'er for 3 years (size L). And I'd say the bikes defining ride characteristics were its ultra short chainstays (425mm for a 29'er is tiny), relatively linear rear suspension feeling (easy to bottom out), and steeper-ish HTA (66 degrees). The short chainstays and steeper-ish HTA gave the bike a pretty short wheelbase for a bike of its travel.

IMO, that lead to a bike that liked the rider to be actively weighting the front (it had a very low stack height),. It was easy to manual/drive the bike through corners with your feet/hips, but also wasn't very stable/confidence inspiring at speed. It also didn't love the ultra steeps. So, a fun bike on tighter less steep stuff (again, my personal perception of it).

I eventually sold it because it was too small for me, and because I realized I had a preference for longer chainstays (preferring a bike with a more evenly distributed front/rear weight distribution).

From the sound of it you're looking for something pretty lively, yet with a fair bit of suspension travel?

A few bikes I don't see on your list:

Specialized Status:

Its got ultra short chainstays like the Kona (426mm), comes in 140, and 160mm travel variants, and has a slack HTA (63.7) like it sounds like you're wanting (inferring that because you liked the sentinels turning behavior more so than the smuggler). And as a bonus, in the US at least, the frame only options are VERY cheap (~$800).

Commencal Meta TR v4:

Its got short but not ultra short chainstays (435mm), and a pretty slack HTA (64.5), and 140mm travel.

Raaw Jibb:

Its local-ish to you, and is named the "Jibb" because its Raaws "playful" bike. It has adjustable chainstay length (435-440-445mm I think), and 135mm of travel out back/150mm travel out front. Its the steepest HTA of the ones I listed here (65.5). But it meets a lot of the other criteria.

Good luck on the search :).
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
ocnLogan said:
So, I don't think I saw this.

Why were you wanting to get rid of the Process, and/or what were you wanting to "change" about it?

I rode a 2018 Process 153 AL 29'er for 3 years (size L). And I'd say the bikes defining ride characteristics were its ultra short chainstays (425mm for a 29'er is tiny), relatively linear rear suspension feeling (easy to bottom out), and steeper-ish HTA (66 degrees). The short chainstays and steeper-ish HTA gave the bike a pretty short wheelbase for a bike of its travel.

IMO, that lead to a bike that liked the rider to be actively weighting the front (it had a very low stack height),. It was easy to manual/drive the bike through corners with your feet/hips, but also wasn't very stable/confidence inspiring at speed. It also didn't love the ultra steeps. So, a fun bike on tighter less steep stuff (again, my personal perception of it).

I eventually sold it because it was too small for me, and because I realized I had a preference for longer chainstays (preferring a bike with a more evenly distributed front/rear weight distribution).

From the sound of it you're looking for something pretty lively, yet with a fair bit of suspension travel?

A few bikes I don't see on your list:

Specialized Status:

Its got ultra short chainstays like the Kona (426mm), comes in 140, and 160mm travel variants, and has a slack HTA (63.7) like it sounds like you're wanting (inferring that because you liked the sentinels turning behavior more so than the smuggler). And as a bonus, in the US at least, the frame only options are VERY cheap (~$800).

Commencal Meta TR v4:

Its got short but not ultra short chainstays (435mm), and a pretty slack HTA (64.5), and 140mm travel.

Raaw Jibb:

Its local-ish to you, and is named the "Jibb" because its Raaws "playful" bike. It has adjustable chainstay length (435-440-445mm I think), and 135mm of travel out back/150mm travel out front. Its the steepest HTA of the ones I listed here (65.5). But it meets a lot of the other criteria.

Good luck on the search :).
Click to expand...
Thanks for joining the conversation :)

It's not that I wanted to change something or get rid of my Process, it was stolen.
Your personal perception of that bike (though I had the Carbon version of it) is quite similar to mine. The (too) linear rear suspension was easily fixable in my case by adding a megneg can to the rear shock. That really transforms the bike IMHO.

I think the 3 bikes you mention could potentially all be a good fit. They are all 3 also on the heavy side of the spectrum (not necessarily a dealbreaker). Will try to get a hold of a demo bike!

Also still on the list to be tested:
  • Scor 4060 ST/LT
  • New Kona Process 153 CR G3 (demo only available next spring)
  • WeAreOne Arrival 150 (but impossible to find a demo in europe...)
 
#18 ·
Ah, I missed the stolen bit hidden cleverly there right there in plain english right at the beginning :D. Sorry about that.

FWIW, the new Process 153's, are mostly different in two ways from the G2's. They have a 1.5 degree slacker HTA (64.5 vs 66), and have 10mm longer chainstays (435mm vs 425mm). They also have marginally longer reaches (480mm for a large vs 475mm). So a G3 may not feel as much like the G2 you had as you might think (I can't confirm, I haven't ridden a G3, but the HTA difference alone is pretty sizeable).

Yeah, all of the options I listed will be heavier. I tend not to pay much attention to bike weight, and favor reliability/durability over high prices anyway, so all the bikes I can think of off the top of my head are usually alloy :D.

If you're looking for a Carbon bike, you may look at Evil. They have a similar sort of geo to most Konas. Meaning, they have short chainstays, and aren't quite as slack as most others these days. They also use a DW inspired suspension design IIRC (DELTA?).

The Wreckoning is their long travel bike (166mm rear travel). Its got 430-432mm chainstays, and a HTA between 63.9 and 65.2 degrees, depending on the flipchip position, and fork travel amount.

The Offering is a 141mm travel bike, with 430mm chainstays, and a HTA between 65.8 - 66.4 degrees (so very similar to the Process 153).

The Propain Hugene (140mm travel carbon bike) may also be up your alley, although the chainstays may be a bit long for you (445mm). The HTA is right middle of the road at 65.1.

Good luck sir :).
 
#20 ·
Looking at the pictures of your amazing terrain, I'd suggest a look at the Orbea Rallon. It climbs very well for an enduro bike, is playful, and very capable on steep trails such as those in your photos. It's fairly light and can be ordered as a frame with custom colors if you wish. Also, European origin.
 
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