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Which one would you buy, assuming the same price?

  • EXT Era V2

    Votes: 23 35%
  • Intend Edge

    Votes: 42 65%
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Yes, of course, it can be done. Just at the expense of weight and/or cost. Fox's 36 is more like the Pike, the Lyrik is stiffer, the Zeb is even stiffer. It's well known that Fox removed way too much material on some of those crowns (and I own one of the 34s of that vintage). At the end of the day, you can also dump that exotic engineering into a conventional fork and come up with something lighter and stiffer....and usually far cheaper.
Still waiting to know if you have ever ridden an intend fork?
 
What are the "new suspension technologies used by virtually all top suspension manufacturers"?
Extreme Shox has many claims of being first for suspension technologies. Some of which I have confirmed to only be true in certain context.
How ever the piece of technology I was referencing which I do believe they were the first to introduce is triple tube struts. Typically this is an 'un-inverted inverted strut' such as used on all WRC cars and most high level supporting class vehicles.
Let me explain in basic terms:
First we have a normal strut. This has a thin shaft at the top and the damper body at the bottom. The wheel hub (upright) attaches rigidly to the damper body.
Second we have the inverted rally strut. This turns the strut upside down. Now the damper body is at the top and the thin shaft is at the bottom. An additional strut casing (tube) is added. The damper body slides down inside the strut casing and the wheel hub attaches to the strut casing. In WRC days they used roller bearings to provide virtually frictionless sliding between the damper body and strut case. Even under severe bending loads.
Then the roller bearings were banned (to reduce cost) forcing them back to using bushes. How to reduce friction and improve damper performance further?
The triple tube strut. We now place the strut in the original position. Damper body at the bottom and thin rod at the top. But we encase the whole thing in a separate lower and upper strut casing. The upper and lower strut casings take all of the bending loads while the damper sits inside unaffected by the external forces. It can operate optimally with virtually no bending loads on the damper body or shaft.

The triple tube strut system is now used by all major WRC suspension manufacturers and is also adopted by many local suspension manufacturers that you have likely never heard of.
 
Extreme Shox has many claims of being first for suspension technologies. Some of which I have confirmed to only be true in certain context.
How ever the piece of technology I was referencing which I do believe they were the first to introduce is triple tube struts. Typically this is an 'un-inverted inverted strut' such as used on all WRC cars and most high level supporting class vehicles.
Let me explain in basic terms:
First we have a normal strut. This has a thin shaft at the top and the damper body at the bottom. The wheel hub (upright) attaches rigidly to the damper body.
Second we have the inverted rally strut. This turns the strut upside down. Now the damper body is at the top and the thin shaft is at the bottom. An additional strut casing (tube) is added. The damper body slides down inside the strut casing and the wheel hub attaches to the strut casing. In WRC days they used roller bearings to provide virtually frictionless sliding between the damper body and strut case. Even under severe bending loads.
Then the roller bearings were banned (to reduce cost) forcing them back to using bushes. How to reduce friction and improve damper performance further?
The triple tube strut. We now place the strut in the original position. Damper body at the bottom and thin rod at the top. But we encase the whole thing in a separate lower and upper strut casing. The upper and lower strut casings take all of the bending loads while the damper sits inside unaffected by the external forces. It can operate optimally with virtually no bending loads on the damper body or shaft.

The triple tube strut system is now used by all major WRC suspension manufacturers and is also adopted by many local suspension manufacturers that you have likely never heard of.
When was that strut design developed and homologated? Everyone uses it now.
 
When was that strut design developed and homologated? Everyone uses it now.
I'm not sure to be honest. EXT website says they first did it in 1996.
The first vehicles I have seen it on are mid 2000s and the couple of national rally champions and suspension manufacturers I have spoken to recall it being early 2000s when they were made aware of the triple tube strut.

If you look at Extreme Shox website they say "1994 we introduce the first hydraulic bump stop control".
I don't believe this to be factual as being the first damper hydraulic bottom out system though.
 
I'm not sure to be honest. EXT website says they first did it in 1996.
The first vehicles I have seen it on are mid 2000s and the couple of national rally champions and suspension manufacturers I have spoken to recall it being early 2000s when they were made aware of the triple tube strut.

If you look at Extreme Shox website they say "1994 we introduce the first hydraulic bump stop control".
I don't believe this to be factual as being the first damper hydraulic bottom out system though.
It also says they developed the upside down strut in 2001: HISTORY - Extreme Racing Shox
How would that have happened after the triple tube strut? Or are they talking about something completely different?

A workmate ~2004 had shocks on his Evo that were either inverted strut or triple tube. They weren't EXT.
 
It also says they developed the upside down strut in 2001: HISTORY - Extreme Racing Shox
How would that have happened after the triple tube strut? Or are they talking about something completely different?

A workmate ~2004 had shocks on his Evo that were either inverted strut or triple tube. They weren't EXT.
I'm not sure to be honest.
It says "We introduce the Upside Down Strut Technology for racing cars"
I'm not sure how plausible it would be. But I know at one stage in time there were race cars with actual upside down struts. That is the damper body at the top and the piston shaft at the bottom with the wheel hub attached rigidly to the piston shaft.
They are missing much of their own history. At one point Extreme Shox were used on Colin Mcrae's Prodrive Subaru.

P.S. Some of these technologies are only allowed if they are commercially available to all competitors.
My understanding is that they then licence the technology with a fee.
Such as was the case with the much successful free rebound system. Which many incorrectly think Reiger developed.
 
I'm not sure to be honest.
It says "We introduce the Upside Down Strut Technology for racing cars"
I'm not sure how plausible it would be. But I know at one stage in time there were race cars with actual upside down struts. That is the damper body at the top and the piston shaft at the bottom with the wheel hub attached rigidly to the piston shaft.
They are missing much of their own history. At one point Extreme Shox were used on Colin Mcrae's Prodrive Subaru.

P.S. Some of these technologies are only allowed if they are commercially available to all competitors.
My understanding is that they then licence the technology with a fee.
Such as was the case with the much successful free rebound system. Which many incorrectly think Reiger developed.
It's hard to make sense of any of their claims really. The issue with high level racing components is they need homologated. There aren't many race classes where you can just conjure up something new, bolt it on and pass scrutineering.

These days in WRC you've got struts from Ohlins, Reiger, EXT, Sachs/Boge and BOS that are basically interchangeable.

But I also heard a rumour that EXT are doing less rally to focus on MTB. Which seems really backwards to me.

What is this "free rebound system"?
 
It's hard to make sense of any of their claims really. The issue with high level racing components is they need homologated. There aren't many race classes where you can just conjure up something new, bolt it on and pass scrutineering.

These days in WRC you've got struts from Ohlins, Reiger, EXT, Sachs/Boge and BOS that are basically interchangeable.

But I also heard a rumour that EXT are doing less rally to focus on MTB. Which seems really backwards to me.

What is this "free rebound system"?
It's a system to open the rebound bleed needle when no load is on the tyre (tyre is airborne).
Similar to WP's Trax shock. Except the one used in WRC doesn't break itself like Trax does.

P.S. To clarify. It is NOT an inertia valve like Koni has used on the rebound damping circuit.
 
It's a system to open the rebound bleed needle when no load is on the tyre (tyre is airborne).
Similar to WP's Trax shock. Except the one used in WRC doesn't break itself like Trax does.

P.S. To clarify. It is NOT an inertia valve like Koni has used on the rebound damping circuit.
Has it proved successful? Because you've already got rapid extension in that situation and too little rebound control will give you top-out shock.

Is it in the current homologation shocks? There's no mention of it: EXT WRC - Extreme Racing Shox
 
Has it proved successful? Because you've already got rapid extension in that situation and too little rebound control will give you top-out shock.

Is it in the current homologation shocks? There's no mention of it: EXT WRC - Extreme Racing Shox
I'd be very surprised if Extreme Shox didn't offer a free rebound system. I've seen it on a heap of different dampers.

Try this Activ Rebound

Tein calls it F.R.S Fast Rebound System
Reiger calls it RCV Rebound Control Valve
Exe-TC (UK) I'm pretty sure called it Rebound Advantage.
BOS uses it although I'm not sure if it is exactly the same on BOS or not. BOS dampers are quite different to normal dampers. Pretty sure it's what BOS lists as CAS system.

You'll also be pleased to know that many companies offer a 2 compression piston option. Not dissimilar to the Dorado's TPC+ pistons.

P.S. You wouldn't be able to go to any national rally event and not have dampers with a free rebound system these days. FIA rallies included.

Around 2012 I had a Reiger MX shock with the Rebound Control Valve. Every mechanic thought my linkage was worn or shock was broken because it provides some free play when at full droop. Just over 1mm at the shock I think. Very noticeable by hand at the rear wheel when on a centre stand.
 
I'd be very surprised if Extreme Shox didn't offer a free rebound system. I've seen it on a heap of different dampers.

Try this Activ Rebound

Tein calls it F.R.S Fast Rebound System
Reiger calls it RCV Rebound Control Valve
Exe-TC (UK) I'm pretty sure called it Rebound Advantage.
BOS uses it although I'm not sure if it is exactly the same on BOS or not. BOS dampers are quite different to normal dampers. Pretty sure it's what BOS lists as CAS system.

You'll also be pleased to know that many companies offer a 2 compression piston option. Not dissimilar to the Dorado's TPC+ pistons.

P.S. You wouldn't be able to go to any national rally event and not have dampers with a free rebound system these days. FIA rallies included.

Around 2012 I had a Reiger MX shock with the Rebound Control Valve. Every mechanic thought my linkage was worn or shock was broken because it provides some free play when at full droop. Just over 1mm at the shock I think. Very noticeable by hand at the rear wheel when on a centre stand.
I've seen a few of these on the dyno and there was nothing especially interesting about the rebound or midvalve piston/rod/shims. How would you see the effect?

One brand (can't recall which) had twin mid-valve pistons but it wasn't possible to see the interplay between them externally and I didn't ask if I could pull them apart further to take a look.

The competitive guys in FIA are running WRC2 spec.
 
From what I understand both the BOS and Reiger 2 piston dampers work in a similar fashion to the Dorado TPC+. A second sliding piston that only engages when both a certain velocity + stroke is reached. High velocity, short stroke it does not engage. Low velocity, long stroke it does not engage.
I doubt you could see anything on a standard crank Dyno.

As for the free rebound systems. The system is usually locked out during normal Dyno testing.
They rely on the spring and spring seat as part of the mechanism. Without the spring the system would just open as soon as the Dyno started the rebound stroke.
It's real simple. If the spring seat is causing the damper to extend then the system is closed (normal operation). If the wheel hub is pulling on the damper to extend then the system is open (releases the rebound adjuster needle).
There is usually a small preload to keep the system closed. Around 3kg/f for awd rally cars I think.
 
From what I understand both the BOS and Reiger 2 piston dampers work in a similar fashion to the Dorado TPC+. A second sliding piston that only engages when both a certain velocity + stroke is reached. High velocity, short stroke it does not engage. Low velocity, long stroke it does not engage.
I doubt you could see anything on a standard crank Dyno.

As for the free rebound systems. The system is usually locked out during normal Dyno testing.
They rely on the spring and spring seat as part of the mechanism. Without the spring the system would just open as soon as the Dyno started the rebound stroke.
It's real simple. If the spring seat is causing the damper to extend then the system is closed (normal operation). If the wheel hub is pulling on the damper to extend then the system is open (releases the rebound adjuster needle).
There is usually a small preload to keep the system closed. Around 3kg/f for awd rally cars I think.
There's nothing like that free rebound being used currently then. It's not compatible with the triple tube struts. The dampers are held in at the top by the rod and the bottom by the ring of bolts.

I can activate and identify all the TPC+ systems on my dyno easily. If there were similar systems in rally dampers you'd definitely see them working on the dyno. They create smoothed step changes in compression on the CVP plots.

Image
 
You just like to argue for the sake of it. You go to any WRC event and virtually all the top 20 will have the free rebound system.
There's no reason for it to be incompatible with triple tube struts. The top strut case just takes the place of the top spring seat.

Maybe it was all imaginary like your life, when I had triple tube struts with free rebound systems in my hands.
 
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