New bike spotted!
Edit: updated threat title to reflect the HD6 model name
Edit: updated threat title to reflect the HD6 model name
Ibis HD6 - New Ibis Enduro Bike
Crossmaxx
221 - 240 of 665 Posts
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849 Posts
This is word salad. Of course head tube length affects fit and position.
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849 Posts
Go down to the FAQs on the product page and you'll see a tab labeled "Dropper Insert". This will give you all the info you need. It's good—deep insertion available on all sizes. They give max insertion across the size range (250/280/290/300/300), but also fit ranges for particular droppers for each size. For example, for a Revive 185 on a size 2 HD6, the minimum saddle height you could get away with is 626mm, and the maximum is 755mm. I wish all manufacturers would publish dropper fit info as detailed and clear as Ibis does.
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4,014 Posts
Why on earth would it? Read a bit about bike geometry, it is the vertical distance from the BB to the top of the head tube, the stack, that does. You can build a bike that has a head tube twice as long as another, have exactly the same stack, and have exactly the same fit.
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849 Posts
I know plenty about bike geometry, and I well know what stack is. You said it yourself—stack is the vert distance from center of bb to top of head tube; how do you not see how HT length is part of that equation? I think maybe you're trying to make the point that the HT number on its own doesn't tell the full story, which, no duh. No one's saying that.
Reach and stack are byproducts of bike design, not drivers of it. They're math, that's all. They provide cross-referenceable numbers to give a sense of how a bike will fit and to compare one bike to another. Stack doesn't "determine fit."
Lol, no. I mean, I get what you're saying, but it's so contrived and theoretical that it's got almost nothing to do with reality. Total front end height is determined by the size of the wheel, the a-c height of the fork, the head tube angle, and the head tube length. BB height plays a role too I suppose. So, yeah—you could have two bikes with drastically different HT lengths that have the same stack, but they're going to be totally different kinds of bikes. A road bike with a 630mm stack is going to have a much longer head tube than a 630mm stack enduro bike with a 180mm fork. What tf difference does that make to anything we're talking about here?
Can two 29" wheeled bikes with say 170mm front travel and HTAs in the neighborhood of 64º have dramatically different HT lengths, and still end up with the same stack? Of course not.
So dude, you're trying to say what exactly? That people's concerns about the short head tubes on this bike are misplaced because HT length doesn't affect fit? You're saying that all the people mentioning this, expressing that it would be hard to fit this bike for them without a super high rise bar, are wrong? The mentions of it in multiple reviews are wrong too? You know what matters, and no one else does? Got it.
...and the stack is higher than an SB160 or Ripmo, for example. I don't see anyone complaining about the head tube length on those bikes.
Having owned enough Ibis bikes, I trust that they know what they're doing. Before drawing conclusions from isolated numbers, why not go ride it first?
Having owned enough Ibis bikes, I trust that they know what they're doing. Before drawing conclusions from isolated numbers, why not go ride it first?
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4,864 Posts
While this bike is not one I'm interested in, I always draw my own conclusions on how a bike fits and/or rides by ACTUALLY RIDING THE BIKE. I don't care what Pinkbike, MTBR or Enduro Magazine (they poo-poo'd the HD5 immediately for being a 27.5 bike) has to say. I don't care what the stack height, chainstay length or reach is. I go demo any bike I'm interested in on the same 15 mile loop and come up with my own review.
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2,683 Posts
Being able to demo any bike you like on your own trail is a rare luxury.
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4,864 Posts
True....we had one local shop (I now moved 6+ hours away) that had/has a fantastic demo program. Not only do all the bikes have top end builds like most of their customers would build up their bikes, but you used to be able to use the demo cost on ANY purchase and not just a new bike. On my next trip back, I'm going to demo the Specialized Enduro to see how it compares to my mullet HD5.
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4,014 Posts
If you cannot figure out that bikes with different head tube length but identical stack have identical (vertical position) fit I do not know what to say. There is little point in try to reason with people who think that some trivial geometry is "contrivied and theoretical" .
And if you are so worried about HT lenght, just compare the numbers with the Ripmo. They are within 0.5-1.0 cm.
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2,634 Posts
In Santa Cruz we can demo Santa Cruz, Ibis, and Specialized latest and greatest on our home trails
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849 Posts
OK man, you’re right. A 33lb 180/165 enduro bike is super heavy, the bike reviewers at Pinkbike are idiots who don’t actually ride bikes, and head tube length doesn’t tell us anything at all about how a bike fits. Got it. Thanks for showing us all the light.
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1,084 Posts
This is the first bike I’ve seen that may get me to sell me Transition Sentinel w/ Cascade link (160 mm up front, 165 out back). My only gripe is that short head tube, not because it’s so short, but simply because I want a lot more stack (HD6 is only 1 mm less than my Sentinel)! Anyone have a graph of the leverage curve for this bike?
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293 Posts
The short head tube is a concern for many, including me… probably a deal breaker.
I don’t see any issue with stack height or fit/feel. Instead I’m concerned about leverage forces on the HT itself (but defer to the Ibis designers here). My biggest issue is having to cut my fork steerer tube so short and killing the resale value!
I don’t see any issue with stack height or fit/feel. Instead I’m concerned about leverage forces on the HT itself (but defer to the Ibis designers here). My biggest issue is having to cut my fork steerer tube so short and killing the resale value!
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2,249 Posts
I have been riding the WR1 Arrival, which has a shorter head tube than the HD6. Their philosophy is also to get the bars lower, so I tried it. At first you notice the lack of front end leverage and certain comfort level, but it works much better than my previous set-up with more spacers. It isn't so much about weighting the front end as it is in moving your body forward/center of gravity that provides more traction and control. Instantly corners were improved. And now, the front leverage feels as natural as when I had my bars higher, and my overall riding is better.
For me going forward, I would want bikes with short head tubes, and there are not many out there.
Maybe give it a try...and you might be pleasantly surprised. If not, lots of great bikes to pick from.
For me going forward, I would want bikes with short head tubes, and there are not many out there.
Maybe give it a try...and you might be pleasantly surprised. If not, lots of great bikes to pick from.
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122 Posts
I would argue that it all depends on the type of terrain you are riding. Low angle stuff yes but steeper stuff I like by bars up.
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8,890 Posts
Just how far over my bars does my saddle need to be?
It's been as far as 5" before.
It's been as far as 5" before.
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2,249 Posts
I understand that. For perspective, HD6 stack heights are very similar to Santa Cruz V10 29er.
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1,625 Posts
One thing for sure, if I ever decide to open my own bike brand I know where to find the experts on geometry. Maybe they should apply at Ibis
or actually have ridden the bike themselves. IMHO, the stack discussion has been pummeled to death, just my 2 cents.
or actually have ridden the bike themselves. IMHO, the stack discussion has been pummeled to death, just my 2 cents.
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8,890 Posts
Yeah. We don't have a clue what geometry fits us. You're correct.
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