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2022 Fox 34 Factory Grip 2: good small bump sensitivity?

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pedalinbob

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Is the 130mm fork supple through the small and/or chattery stuff? Maybe 1"?

I'm tired of forks that stick around the sag point with a kind of platform that doesn't respond to the little stuff.
They are efficient, but beat me up.
I don't want to guess and tinker (new seals, better lube, resize bushings, etc) to get a fork with good action.


Bob
 
#2 ·
My honest answer to that question would be to run a coil fork.

The recent Grip 2 forks have been polarizing and discussed ad infinitum on here. Personally I am someone who does NOT find it to be a great fork for chatter.

I switched away from my Push conversion fork because the extra weight in the front end was not ideal for my typical trail...but I can say without a doubt the small bump compliance and performance thru chatter was superior to any other fork I've ever run.
 
#4 ·
In general, I prefer the DVO Sapphire because of the OTT adjustment over any other 130mm fork. I am not one for picking “good” lines, at all, and I found Sapphire to be the most comfortable on my hands/wrists. I had a Marzocchi Z2 that was really rough in comparison, legitimate numbness after a rough section. Honestly the small bump compliance (slower technical riding/and even in certain chattery sections) is better than my FOX 36 Performance set at 150 on my other bike.
 
#5 ·
On small stuff like that the most important thing is to minimize friction. Unfortunately you'll most likely have to tinker to achieve that. Burnishing the bushings can make a massive difference, and on mass produced forks it's a lottery whether you get something with good bushings or not. Some good slippery oil like Supergliss helps a lot too, and an air spring with a bigger negative chamber doesn't hurt either. Keeping up with maintenance is also key.
New oil and having the bushings burnished is easy to do and it's not expensive at all. Obviously a coil conversion helps but that's a big step.

But you can have the most pimped out fork, after a certain point you'll have to accept that a telescopic fork won't be able to absorb every little pebble. IMO on small stuff tyres do most of the work and they make the biggest difference.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the input, everyone, I really appreciate it.

I really miss my old coil forks. I do recall that my old Manitou SX-Rs took a bit to loosen up, but then they were butter.

I don't expect a magic carpet ride, and don't think I'm asking too much for a fork to actually respond.
I'm going over small roots and the forks will be essentially locked out. I'm looking right at the stanchion. It is really weird.
This has occurred with 4 forks:
Manitou Markhour, 2 Manitou R7 Pros and a Rockshox SID Select 35mm.

I've serviced all of them exactly per factory spec, and even burnished the bushings, but the behavior persists.

I have some thinking to do...

Bob
 
#7 ·
I had a 2022 130 mm 34 performace grip 2. I replaced the air cartridge with a 140mm. The 140 has a larger negative spring volume and is better on small bumps than the 130. I changed to the 140 to change my geometry and was not expecting any improvement in fork action. I would not say the 130 or 140 has good small bump compliance. I do not have any reference to good small bump compliance on mountain bike. I do know spring forks on my dirtbike are better than air on small movements. I also own a hybrid (spring and air) Ohlins setup that is good.
 
#8 ·
Mike Aswell said:
The recent Grip 2 forks have been polarizing and discussed ad infinitum on here.
Click to expand...
With a damper that has as much adjustability as the Grip 2, I doubt more than 10% have it set up properly, and thus the mixed reviews. A fork that hits a root and stays locked out, as the OP claims, is either broken or very much set up poorly.

That said, I find that Fox offerings tend to be on the stiffer, more racy side of suspension feel. RS, DVO, and Manitou tend to be more "plush" and comfortable.
 
#9 ·
I have 2022 34 Grip 2 set up at 140. I find that the fork really shines the harder I push it and the faster I go. It's not the most comfortable for relaxed-body cruising on a flat, rooty trail. But when I get forward and aggressive and push it through corners and fast rough sections it smoothes them out and maintains traction.

I have mine set up with pretty close to Fox's recommended air pressure for my weight, stock number of spacers, rebound a click or two faster than fox recommends and both lsc and hsc a few clicks more damped than Fox's stock settings.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
kpdemello said:
With a damper that has as much adjustability as the Grip 2, I doubt more than 10% have it set up properly, and thus the mixed reviews. A fork that hits a root and stays locked out, as the OP claims, is either broken or very much set up poorly.

That said, I find that Fox offerings tend to be on the stiffer, more racy side of suspension feel. RS, DVO, and Manitou tend to be more "plush" and comfortable.
Click to expand...
The forks aren't exactly locked out, but they are required a surprisingly high threshold to do so.

As far as improper setup: I'm a former master mechanic, maintain all of my bikes, and have been mountain biking for almost 35 years.

On my current R7, I sent it to Hayes under warranty (after I serviced it, which included lightening the compression stack) and they found nothing wrong.

In other words, the forks inherently have stiction or platform that I have not been able to dial out.
I will probably try burnishing the bearings again, and maybe low friction seals, but I suspect this behavior is more or less inherent to air forks due to the need for airtight seals.

That said, once the fork gets moving, it tracks the ground beautifully.
Once it settles on smoother terrain, it pings off small hits again until provoked into action again.
THAT is the problem.

Bob
 
#12 ·
I have a 23 waiting to go on coming SB120 and I took it apart immediately before 0 use. The new air spring is significantly different from the previous gen and the lowers lubrication much better, so I have high expectations. I swapped the Fox Teflon 5Wt for Motorex 2.5Wt.
 
#13 ·
pedalinbob said:
The forks aren't exactly locked out, but they are required a surprisingly high threshold to do so.

As far as improper setup: I'm a former master mechanic, maintain all of my bikes, and have been mountain biking for almost 35 years.

On my current R7, I sent it to Hayes under warranty (after I serviced it, which included lightening the compression stack) and they found nothing wrong.

In other words, the forks inherently have stiction or platform that I have not been able to dial out.
I will probably try burnishing the bearings again, and maybe low friction seals, but I suspect this behavior is more or less inherent to air forks due to the need for airtight seals.

That said, once the fork gets moving, it tracks the ground beautifully.
Once it settles on smoother terrain, it pings off small hits again until provoked into action again.
THAT is the problem.

Bob
Click to expand...
Have you tried burnishing the bushings? I have a 22 Fox 34 with a Dougal tuned grip 2 and fork tracks really good but I burnished the bushings so it's not sticky at all, also using Supergliss 68k on air side and Motorex 2.5w on damper side.
 
#14 ·
One of the challenges isn't the fork but the geometry of modern bikes. As reach has gotten longer and head angles have gotten slacker our centre of mass has moved backwards. This means that on flat terrain our forks sometimes feel like absolute crap.

Until recently I had an old school XC bike with a 70 HA, short reach and long stem. The fork on that bike felt amazing on flat ground (not so good on steep descent though). I put the same fork on a more modern bike and it felt like arse on flats.
 
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Discussion starter · #15 ·
"...it felt like arse on flats." for some reason cracked me up! Thanks, LMN (and everyone else) for the help.

Funny, the issue seems to occur with a small subset of riders. I suspect lighter riders (I'm 160-165lbs) on less extreme terrain.
I've run across a number of people describing my exact problem.
(On a side note, I just looked at my ride logs, and my Fox Rhythm from a 2018 Top Fuel had the same issue. That is FIVE forks. The Markhor did loosen up a bit after a lighter compression tune and 2,000 miles.)

I should record the issue.
I'll gently place weight on the fork, and slowly increase the pressure. It will drop to around the sag point and stop.
I have to keep increasing pressure until it suddenly drops maybe 25mm and stops again. I have to use a large portion to my body weight to push through the 2nd stop.
I think there is a third "stop," but haven't checked in a while.
THIS is why my hands, shoulders, neck and upper back are so sore after a ride.

I put a bath scale under the front wheel, and it clearly showed a logarithmic progression in pressure to get past each sticking point.
It should, in my opinion, be smoothly progressive.

I had 2 Manitou SX-R and a Six Deluxe (same as the SX-R). They felt a bit harsh at first. It took around 200 miles to break them in, then they were butter.
The one on my wife's bike is (from 2002) is still fine, other than a hardened elastomer.

I guess I'll burnish the bushings again and try some low friction dust seals. Would like to try SKF green, but can't figure out what model works with my fork.
I emailed SKF, but no answer yet.
The same model is listed for Fox only and "32mm forks."
Maybe Push seals...

Bob
 
#17 ·
pedalinbob said:
"...it felt like arse on flats." for some reason cracked me up! Thanks, LMN (and everyone else) for the help.

Funny, the issue seems to occur with a small subset of riders. I suspect lighter riders (I'm 160-165lbs) on less extreme terrain.
I've run across a number of people describing my exact problem.
(On a side note, I just looked at my ride logs, and my Fox Rhythm from a 2018 Top Fuel had the same issue. That is FIVE forks. The Markhor did loosen up a bit after a lighter compression tune and 2,000 miles.)

I should record the issue.
I'll gently place weight on the fork, and slowly increase the pressure. It will drop to around the sag point and stop.
I have to keep increasing pressure until it suddenly drops maybe 25mm and stops again. I have to use a large portion to my body weight to push through the 2nd stop.
I think there is a third "stop," but haven't checked in a while.
THIS is why my hands, shoulders, neck and upper back are so sore after a ride.

I put a bath scale under the front wheel, and it clearly showed a logarithmic progression in pressure to get past each sticking point.
It should, in my opinion, be smoothly progressive.

I had 2 Manitou SX-R and a Six Deluxe (same as the SX-R). They felt a bit harsh at first. It took around 200 miles to break them in, then they were butter.
The one on my wife's bike is (from 2002) is still fine, other than a hardened elastomer.

I guess I'll burnish the bushings again and try some low friction dust seals. Would like to try SKF green, but can't figure out what model works with my fork.
I emailed SKF, but no answer yet.
The same model is listed for Fox only and "32mm forks."
Maybe Push seals...

Bob
Click to expand...
thebikehub.com

SKF Low-Friction Dust Wiper Seal Kit: Fox 34mm Fits 2016-Current Forks

SKF Low-Friction Dust Wiper Seal Kit: Fox 34mm Fits 2016-Current Forks. SKF's seal kits are constructed of a low friction material that reduces the breakaway force in your shock and allows it to be more reactive. These 34mm seals fit the most common trail and all-mountiain forks in the...
thebikehub.com thebikehub.com
 
#18 ·
pedalinbob said:
"...it felt like arse on flats." for some reason cracked me up! Thanks, LMN (and everyone else) for the help.

Funny, the issue seems to occur with a small subset of riders. I suspect lighter riders (I'm 160-165lbs) on less extreme terrain.
I've run across a number of people describing my exact problem.
(On a side note, I just looked at my ride logs, and my Fox Rhythm from a 2018 Top Fuel had the same issue. That is FIVE forks. The Markhor did loosen up a bit after a lighter compression tune and 2,000 miles.)

I should record the issue.
I'll gently place weight on the fork, and slowly increase the pressure. It will drop to around the sag point and stop.
I have to keep increasing pressure until it suddenly drops maybe 25mm and stops again. I have to use a large portion to my body weight to push through the 2nd stop.
I think there is a third "stop," but haven't checked in a while.
THIS is why my hands, shoulders, neck and upper back are so sore after a ride.

I put a bath scale under the front wheel, and it clearly showed a logarithmic progression in pressure to get past each sticking point.
It should, in my opinion, be smoothly progressive.

I had 2 Manitou SX-R and a Six Deluxe (same as the SX-R). They felt a bit harsh at first. It took around 200 miles to break them in, then they were butter.
The one on my wife's bike is (from 2002) is still fine, other than a hardened elastomer.

I guess I'll burnish the bushings again and try some low friction dust seals. Would like to try SKF green, but can't figure out what model works with my fork.
I emailed SKF, but no answer yet.
The same model is listed for Fox only and "32mm forks."
Maybe Push seals...

Bob
Click to expand...
Does it do it without the front wheel installed? Wonder if front hub spacing is of binding the fork
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
The fork is 32mm. :). Weird, huh?

Good point about the wheel, and potential stanchion/lower misalignment!
I tried 3 different wheels with no change.
Then I tried with the wheel off, and no apparent change.
That said, because the loosened axle was sitting on a 2x4, it felt a bit unstable and I was being cautious.

I wrote in my log that I wanted to try with the axle/lowers at varied states, and/or add spacers to the wheel--to vary the dropout width.
I tried using ratchet clamps to spread the lowers, but it lacked fine adjustment, so I think it would be better to test with the fork off the bike.

Maybe I'll try that next...

Bob
 
#20 ·
pedalinbob said:
The fork is 32mm. :). Weird, huh?

Good point about the wheel, and potential stanchion/lower misalignment!
I tried 3 different wheels with no change.
Then I tried with the wheel off, and no apparent change.
That said, because the loosened axle was sitting on a 2x4, it felt a bit unstable and I was being cautious.

I wrote in my log that I wanted to try with the axle/lowers at varied states, and/or add spacers to the wheel--to vary the dropout width.
I tried using ratchet clamps to spread the lowers, but it lacked fine adjustment, so I think it would be better to test with the fork off the bike.

Maybe I'll try that next...

Bob
Click to expand...
I would take it apart, remove the dust seals and insert each stanchion by itself to see if it's a tight bushing or misalignment, once you know the chassis is good then move to the damper and air shaft.
 
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