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baker

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)

Potential paywall issues here, but the article addresses the fire mitigation in the Monument Preserve and the rehab effort led by FOMP (fomp.org). About 65 people showed up to the organized trail day to rehab trails that had been massively impacted by the USFS fire mitigation effort. Addtionally, many hours have been previously spent in non-FOMP efforts to rehab other parts of the Preserve.

That's me in the lead photo...I had a group of 12 people rehabbing the Mad Hatter area, the most popular trail in the Preserve. In places, I could not even find the original trail bed on a trail I have ridden over 500 times.

Anyway, most trails are good to ride. Loads of debris to the sides, falling back into the trail bed, lots of soft spots where the trail was destroyed or rerouted, etc. Things look way different, with very little scrub oak remaining in the area, and tons and tons of small to medium sized evergreens removed.

There are some widely varying opinions of the whole effort...most locals are appalled, including the homeowners who are supposedly protected by this effort. On the other hand the Forest Service is happy with their work: "It’s mission accomplished, said Pikes Peak District Ranger Carl Bauer. “We met our objectives with this, and we’re pleased with the contractor’s work out there,” he said."

Whatever...we are just trying to look forward and rehab where we can and to take advantage of the changes where we can for trail realignment, social trail improvement, etc.

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This is the Forest Service's new MO. They approached our Park County HOA with a hand thinning, selective cutting mitgation plan, then changed to a total destruction plan without consulting. Washington FS headquarters assures us they have every right not to consult stakeholders. This ecological disaster resulted in cutting 800 year old limber pines and any bristecone pines under 9 inches in diameter.
 
It's so much more entertaining to ride in a burnt hells scape, I hear doing drops off abandoned foundations is really cool too.

Bunch of whiners!

Try rebuiding entire trail systems through clear cuts. Logging happens, fire mitigation is finally happening. It might not be pretty, and it does suck to have to rebuild trails but the alternatives are worse.

I'd say a few saved houses and less severe fires is a pretty good trade off.

Oh and it's sad but old growth trees are usually fairly dangerous, the fall to pieces and are hazards. They do look pretty, but they are NOT safe.
 
Obliteration? I wouldn't say that, heavy handed?? Probably

The mitigation was needed tho, this is what happens when we have nearly 3 years of La Nina and drought, I've lost a handful of mature trees just on my property. My feeling about the whole thing is it's just kinda sad as it doesn't even look the same. I've always enjoyed the descent off MH rd to the monument, Cool runnings I think is the name of the trail(I don't pay attn to trail names there I just have my route I like), that area was pretty much clear cut which I don't understand as the trees didn't look unhealthy or dying for the most part.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Obliteration? I wouldn't say that, heavy handed?? Probably

The mitigation was needed tho, this is what happens when we have nearly 3 years of La Nina and drought, I've lost a handful of mature trees just on my property. My feeling about the whole thing is it's just kinda sad as it doesn't even look the same. I've always enjoyed the descent off MH rd to the monument, Cool runnings I think is the name of the trail(I don't pay attn to trail names there I just have my route I like), that area was pretty much clear cut which I don't understand as the trees didn't look unhealthy or dying for the most part.
Definitely heavy handed. I'm no forester, so I've tried to limit my negative commentary (that thread title is the title of the news article, not my wording).

The thinning isn't really due to the drought and dead trees. It is more an artifact of scrub oak regrowth after the Berry Fire and fire suppression in general. So, the USFS is attempting to establish a more varied forest with reduced fuel load. There are rumors of prescribed burns now that the fuel load is lower, but I have no idea if that is really in their plans.

Cool Runnings is still fun, as are most of the rehab'd trails. Different, but fun. It is weird to be able to see people hiking and biking all around you. In the past, the dense vegetation gave the trail user a feeling of isolation. One side benefit of the mitigation is that sight lines are vastly improved and trail conflict should be signifcantly reduced.
 
Yeah I realized that was the article title. I'm certainly in no position to question their methods and trying not to be critical either but I just figured they were gonna do more thinning of dead pine trees than clearing out large areas like they did with the scrub oak. That's what they did down lower on the north side of MH rd, doesn't look too bad there, aside from the slash piles they still need to pu.

Oh well, done whining about the outcome it is what it is, maybe the varied forest idea will come to fruition I don't miss all the scrub oak but that sh!t is like weeds it will come back quick
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Yeah I realized that was the article title. I'm certainly in no position to question their methods and trying not to be critical either but I just figured they were gonna do more thinning of dead pine trees than clearing out large areas like they did with the scrub oak. That's what they did down lower on the north side of MH rd, doesn't look too bad there, aside from the slash piles they still need to pu.

Oh well, done whining about the outcome it is what it is, maybe the varied forest idea will come to fruition I don't miss all the scrub oak but that sh!t is like weeds it will come back quick
I'm right with you on the scrub oak coming back. Their methodology seems suspect, but I don't know jack.

I've been told they will burn all those piles when there are some good snow storms. Maybe in the fall/winter....
 
I've been told they will burn all those piles when there are some good snow storms. Maybe in the fall/winter....
That's a lot of piles!, I can see that being a bone of contention if there is a wildfire this summer that's some serious fuel right next to all those homes that just seems sketchy like a bunch of bonfires, oops said I was done whining :)
 
True story: when Red Rocks Park was being "built" through the blowing up of various rocks that were in the way of what is now the theater, the head of the construction took the dynamite demo guys aside and told them to blow ALL the rocks up at once because if they just demoed one rock then one more rock, the uproar from those who didn't want the project to proceed would just grow and grow and slow down if not stop the work. If all the rocks were gone...POOF!...well, any protesting wouldn't matter, the construction crews could proceed with the building of the Red Rocks Park we know now
 
Hey, it's better than Flagstaff where they caught the forest on fire and burned half if it down on accident while de-foresting/clearing combustible stuff.
 
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A small update. About 2 weeks ago I was on a trail run and chatted with the supervisor. They were just completing the work. He said moving forward they would have controlled burns to manage the smaller brush.

Whats interesting is they found that the tree canopy in Colorado holds a significant amount of snow and a large percentage if it will evaporate without ever reaching the ground. So reducing trees will increase ground moisture in those locations as well as snowpack which will add more water to reservoirs.

I don't have a degree in Forestry, so I cant speak to the effectiveness or the scope of work required to mitigate fire. But I do notice that the areas mitigated have grown back a lot of scrub brush and wildflowers, so it's not all bad. There's still plenty of untouched forest further up the mountain.

It does seem to me like a single fire break along Mt Herman Road itself for maybe a 1/4 mile wide might be adequate rather than clearing what seems like almost the entire area.

The colorful language filled sign I saw last month that was posted near a trailhead was uncalled for, since families with young kids use the area. Grow up. You can express your opinion in public without using profanity. I tore that down.


Big thanks to the volunteers. I wasn't able to attend the last trail clearing day I saw a couple weeks ago.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
A small update. About 2 weeks ago I was on a trail run and chatted with the supervisor. They were just completing the work. He said moving forward they would have controlled burns to manage the smaller brush.

Whats interesting is they found that the tree canopy in Colorado holds a significant amount of snow and a large percentage if it will evaporate without ever reaching the ground. So reducing trees will increase ground moisture in those locations as well as snowpack which will add more water to reservoirs.

I don't have a degree in Forestry, so I cant speak to the effectiveness or the scope of work required to mitigate fire. But I do notice that the areas mitigated have grown back a lot of scrub brush and wildflowers, so it's not all bad. There's still plenty of untouched forest further up the mountain.

It does seem to me like a single fire break along Mt Herman Road itself for maybe a 1/4 mile wide might be adequate rather than clearing what seems like almost the entire area.

The colorful language filled sign I saw last month that was posted near a trailhead was uncalled for, since families with young kids use the area. Grow up. You can express your opinion in public without using profanity. I tore that down.


Big thanks to the volunteers. I wasn't able to attend the last trail clearing day I saw a couple weeks ago.
The controlled burns will be interesting, from a public opinion perspective. IMO, they've got to do something for maintenance, or it'll just revert back to the same danger within 5-10 years. The regrowth so far has been insane, mostly attributable to the higher than average rainfall this year.

I didn't see any of the colorful language garbage at the trailhead. People are pissed, but there is no need for that. Thanks for taking it down.

And, you are welcome on the volunteer rehab work. It feels endless, but we are almost there. Another trail rehab night next week to work on one of the trails west of MHR that was recently obliterated. Pic attached. There was a trail in this pic, but the masticator drove over it multiple times and it is now obliterated for about 400 meters. We will take advantage of the work to realign the trail now that scrub oak is not forcing the trail corridor in a certain direction.


Unfortunately, regular trail maintenance tasks have been given the short straw this year. With the extra precip, this means many of the trails are already having scrub oak encroachment issues. C'est la vie.

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The FS absolutely destroyed large parts of the area around Buffalo Creek too. The top section where Baldy and Gashouse meet is virtually unrecognizable.
Destroyed? Examples? Removed your favorite feature? The evil empire did small tree thinning? Or just vegetation changes you are sad to see? Do you live in the community the results may help mitigate or do you haul ass through on your bike while shaking your fist a smokey. Stupid bear i hate chainsaws and smoke. What did Buffalo Creek Fire do 1996? Same area? Same hydrolic result, destroyed? Like this management effort or prescribed? Let us know wise one....what is that population of front range? And everyone living in the forest and I gotta ride my bike in the heavy brush next to homes to be happy, so I don't drive to far!! Balance...ride your fucking bike and enjoy any damn vegetation you can! I'm guessing this management just happened, not even a season past. Entitled.
 
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