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2023 Zeb Ultimate vs Mezzer Pro

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#21 ·
dysfunction said:
2023 would have the new spring, and damper.

That looks like the older air spring, my 2023 lyrik calls it denonair+ on trailhead app/page
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What's the build/delivery date on yours? Model years unfortunately have no correlation with calendar years.
 
#22 ·
Dougal said:
What's the build/delivery date on yours? Model years unfortunately have no correlation with calendar years.
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Date on the box is 2022/04/22
 
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#25 ·
Dougal said:
Hmmm. Is this the select forks missing out on the Debonair+ spring totally or is this just built too early?

An updated parts catalogue would clear it up nicely.
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Built too early.
New lower spec forks are coming with a spacer-nut instead of a butter cup, but other than that they are identical to the one installed in the Ultimate.
 
#27 ·
SasquatchMTB said:
So which Zeb is the good one and the one want? The 2023 or an older model with a Secus or both with a Secus? The Charger 3 is better then the 2.1, right?
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The one with the backwards arch.
 
#28 ·
If you say 'Mezzer' 3x fast in a mirror you will get some information which may or may not be useful.

I have a Zeb Ultimate with Charger 2.1 and it is really good and tbh hard to distinguish from my Mezzers.

The feedback on Charger 3 Zeb with Buttercups is mixed and you can score a Mezzer of Zeb Charger 2.1 for less $$$ than the latest and greatest Zeb.

Mezzer is great, more difficult to setup at first, a bit lighter than a Zeb, but once you work out your air pressures not much goofing around required and it feels pretty similar to a Zeb which is a good thing.

Small bump on the Mezzer isn't as good out of the box as a Zeb but it isn't garbage either. There is a quad ring modification for that and with that the Mezzer ends up feeling pretty similar to a Zeb.

Both are easy to work on, Charger damper doesn't really have parts available so if it has an issue can be a pain to deal with aka might have to buy a new damper unit. Manitou support is very responsive, easier to find Zeb spare parts around the Internet.

As far as Secus goes maybe...I didn't love it on a Fox 36, I didn't hate it but it didn't make me go woo-woo but lots of people do like it lots.

I sent my Zeb over to Diaz Suspension for work on the Charger 2.1 and really like it, feels like my Mezzers do but simpler to setup and have been using half a Formula Neopos in the Zeb instead of the RS tokens which gives a nice ramp up and boosts the mid-stroke feel in my estimation.

You can't go wrong with any of those choices there but newest isn't always better as it begs the question of what constitutes better and who do you believe when they tell you something is better, right?

It is the classic 'the blah 3.0 is amazing in every way and an improvement'...wait, the 2.x was a dumpster fire then (?!?) but you said the 2.x was the greatest thing since sliced bread, how can both of those things be true and not true at the same time, wtf?!?
 
#29 ·
I had a slightly different experience with my charger 2.1 Zeb compared to my Mezzer. Obviously terrain and riding style play a large role in personal experience but this is my 2 cents:

I agree that the small bump is better on the Zeb, in straight fast sections with lots of small bumps it really does just eat that stuff up. But they aren’t even close to comparable when it comes to support, from either the airspring or the damper. The Mezzer has consistent support through the whole stroke to push against without any harshness, whereas the Zeb was either plush and divey or harsh and supportive. I played with the whole range of tokens, no tokens, less pressure and more damping, more pressure and less damping, nothing got me a set up I was happy with. I’m sure that custom tuning from Diaz has helped this though. I do think the charger 2.1 with some custom tuning and the new debonair+ airspring could be a winner. The chassis for the Zeb is really good for hard charging, stiffer than the fox 38 or Mezzer IME. I’ve definitely considered giving the Zeb another try but with a custom tuned damper (avy, fast, tuned charger 2.1) and a smashpot…
 
#31 ·
Bikeventures said:
I found this to be a good comparison of all the big boy forks. The rankings in sensitivity, support, and stiffness was useful.

blisterreview.com

Trail / Enduro MTB Fork Comparisons | Blister

BLISTER | Forks & Shocks, Mountain Bike Reviews, Reviews | October 26, 2022 | The most honest & in-depth reviews of outdoor gear
blisterreview.com blisterreview.com
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That is a great comparison, and I feel as though it mirrors my personal experience quite well. I really like the way David Golay lays out his comparisons and ranks them based on various important characteristics. Off topic but I’m hoping to experiment between the new RXF38 and the shockcraft rebound piston/tune on my Mezzer this spring!
 
#32 ·
Is For Most of racers even the Lyrik IS enough referring to stiffness,the mezzer ist totally find. For Mist Amateurs and Prost the ZEB ist too much in Looong Enduro stages.
.the mezzers spring IS still better in Respekt to Support and being able to Use all travel without harsh bottom Outs. IT IS unfortunately Most Times Just necessary to give the mezzer a burnishing of the bushings I have to admit.
But this is a cost of 30-60 Euros.
Zeb before 2022 Sometimes Had the Need For that,too. As I Heard the 2023 are smoother in that regard.
 
#33 ·
Radecki said:
I own Mezzer Pro and Zeb Ultimate 2023. I have been riding Mezzer for exactly 2 years and Zeb for 2 months and absolutely my vote and my heart is for Zeb. First of all, Zeb is much much more plush and has 10 times greater small bump sensivity which you can feel on the road. So you get less tension on the hands but mainly you feel as your tire is glued to the ground. And it is somethng you do not have to think of it, You just feel it immediately. Then, Zeb is completely quite. What satisfying feeling it is:) It is so simple to set. On the Mezzer I was like I could set pressure every ride because it has never reach my point of what fork is supposed to give me. And it was so frustrating. On the Zeb you can feel while pressing the fork that it can easily deflect. On the Mezzer you feel like something is holding it and you have to use more pressure to suppress it.
I could only imagine how the Zeb would work with the modification with real spring inside but so far there is no need to do so:)
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On the Mezzer, if you increase travel 10mm by removing a spacer, then lower the travel back down 10mm using the suck-down method, that increases negative air-spring volume and should improve small bump compliance if I understand correctly. Obviously can't do this if you want to run full 180mm travel though.
 
#34 ·
Dougal said:
They're simply robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The Zeb air spring has really limited space, they are taking up 190mm of stroke and the notch location is already fixed. You can Luftkappe it (as RS have effectively done) but you can only get a little more negative without making positive way too progressive.
This is why Fox ran the internal air-tube and 34mm piston in the F38. Because otherwise they ran out of volume.

The fix is the Secus. It uses external volume for the negative spring increase.
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Is it correct that by reducing the travel on the Mezzer using the suck-down method, negative air-spring volume is increased giving better small-bump compliance?
 
#35 ·
McHenryMTB said:
Is it correct that by reducing the travel on the Mezzer using the suck-down method, negative air-spring volume is increased giving better small-bump compliance?
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I was under the impression that whatever method you use the negative spring is increased. The perk of the suckdown is you get a bit of negative travel too.
 
#36 ·
McHenryMTB said:
On the Mezzer, if you increase travel 10mm by removing a spacer, then lower the travel back down 10mm using the suck-down method, that increases negative air-spring volume and should improve small bump compliance if I understand correctly. Obviously can't do this if you want to run full 180mm travel though.
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Hey McHenry, can you detail the suck-down method please? I couldn't find any detail on this.

Hayes support also just told me "If running less than 180mm travel, the stock "solid" half/half travel spacer can be swapped with the standard C-clip travel spacers. This will access more negative volume and improve sensitivity, but need to increase pressure 1-2psi to match the desired sag."

 
#38 ·
McHenryMTB said:
Just have to attach shock pump (make sure it's screwed on all the way), move fork to desired travel, unscrew pump
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Thanks! Of course, just equalising the chambers at the desired travel. That's another handy feature of using a piston valve instead of a dimple - it's possible to equalise at any travel, not whatever the fork was manufactured at.

Out-of-context reply from McHenry - I was enquiring about the suck-down method of improving small-bump sensitivity
 
#39 · (Edited)
@Dougal I have a question that you might find some what as an abomination.
I already have the ZEB Ultimate with Charger3 and struggled to set it up in 180mm travel for a 220lbs, tried the Secus as a solution and found that I was able to finally achieve support from the form in the middle of the travel without compromising end stroke progression. The Charger3 on other hand is impossible for me to decipher and all attempts to find some thing even remotely comfortable as my previous HC97 on Charger 2.1 is always breaking my hands in the High-speed bigger impact. I really regret my impulse decision to replace the Lyrik with Lyftkapfe and HC97 but I was tempted by the amount of flex that I was experiencing in 180mm travel and my weight.
So my question is can I put a Mezzer pro MC2 damper in the Zeb and adapt the threads with adapter in the crown thread or it's not worth it? Purchase of a complete Mezzer pro fork will put me at a total loss of around 500$ and Manitou MC2 damper is around 175$ and I can justify it somehow. I know that you can't recommend nor guarantee directly this "Manishox" solution but do you thing that it's at least worth a try?
 
#40 ·
capoeirabg said:
@Dougal I have a question that you might find some what as an abomination.
I already have the ZEB Ultimate and struggled to set it up in 180mm travel for a 220lbs, tried the Secus as a solution and found that I was able to finally achieve support from the form in the middle of the travel without compromising end stroke progression. The Charger3 on other hand is impossible for me to decipher and all attempts to find some thing even remotely comfortable as my previous HC97 on Charger 2.1 is always breaking my hands in the High-speed bigger impact. I really regret my impulse decision to replace the Lyrik with Lyftkapfe and HC97 but I was tempted by the amount of flex that I was experiencing in 180mm travel and my weight.
So my question is can I put a Mezzer pro MC2 damper in the Zeb and adapt the threads with adapter in the crown thread or it's not worth it? Purchase of a complete Mezzer pro fork will put me at a total loss of around 500$ and Manitou MC2 damper is around 175$ and I can justify it somehow. I know that you can't recommend nor guarantee directly this "Manishox" solution but do you thing that it's at least worth a try?
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Since you liked the Lyrik with Lyftkapfe and HC97 you had, why not getting another HC97 for your ZEB Ultimate with the Secus you correctly having?
 
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