After being completely out of the modern MTB world for years, I'm in the market for a new bike, and am learning a lot of new designs and specs that go into bikes nowadays. One is the Boost hub standard. I am 59 and weigh around 215, and will never race the bike, or really do any hard core off-roading, mostly commuting on a mix of street and light trails, with a bit of single track on occasion. The bike I'm seriously considering, a Trek X-Calibur 8, uses a Boost 5mm QR rear bub (thru axle up front). From everything I've read, it seems to be a weak point on an otherwise good looking bike, but is that for people who may race or really push their bikes regularly, or would someone like myself really have a problem? Is it easy to convert to Boost 148 without a new hub and complete wheel rebuild, or are there end cap adapters that will convert it? Or is the stock Trek Shimano Microspline freehub hub just trash and replace it all together if I were to buy the X-Calibur?
Is Boost 141 QR that bad for "regular" riding?
RobS100
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After being completely out of the modern MTB world for years, I'm in the market for a new bike, and am learning a lot of new designs and specs that go into bikes nowadays. One is the Boost hub standard. I am 59 and weigh around 215, and will never race the bike, or really do any hard core off-roading, mostly commuting on a mix of street and light trails, with a bit of single track on occasion. The bike I'm seriously considering, a Trek X-Calibur 8, uses a Boost 5mm QR rear bub (thru axle up front). From everything I've read, it seems to be a weak point on an otherwise good looking bike, but is that for people who may race or really push their bikes regularly, or would someone like myself really have a problem? Is it easy to convert to Boost 148 without a new hub and complete wheel rebuild, or are there end cap adapters that will convert it? Or is the stock Trek Shimano Microspline freehub hub just trash and replace it all together if I were to buy the X-Calibur?
The main challenge with the 141 QR "standard" is that it is a cheap, reverse-engineered 'hack' of the 148 boost standard designed for one thing, and one thing only - to save the bike manufacturer a few dollars.
As such it ends up on cheap low end bikes and a few older trek bikes (roscoe/X-calibur) which should never have been designed to use it.
As such it ends up on cheap low end bikes and a few older trek bikes (roscoe/X-calibur) which should never have been designed to use it.
- If you are riding 141 on a hardtail fairly sedately, you will probably not have any issue.
- If you are riding 141 on a hardtail in tough conditions, you may bend the axle or risk it moving in the dropouts. Resulting in disc rub or poor shifting. A 12mm Through axle bike is a better option.
- If you plan to ride a FS with 141 that is a bad idea.
- If you want to upgrade the 141 wheel, replace the 5mm QR axle etc, you may have difficulty finding parts. In that situation you will have to find a 148 hub which takes QR end caps - some DT swiss ones can do this.
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This is actually pretty easy. Lots of hub brands use end caps for different axle types. Use the same caps to switch between 142/135 and 148/141 on all of them. Hope, DT Swiss, Industry Nine, etc. Where it gets wonky is if you want something better than cheap OEM stuff, but not quite as nice as Hope, DT Swiss, or Industry Nine.
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I have never bent an axle on my ancient Univega (1986 Alpina Sport) or had a wheel loosen up on me, though my son has when he used to do more serious MTB trail riding on his Rockhopper Comp, which I have rented a couple times to ride with him and never noticed an issue, but of course they were only 3 hour or so at one ride.
Is the Boost 141 worse than what's on the say Marlin 8? It was never mentioned to be a problem in all the reviews I read about the Marlin.
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I don't find anything wrong with the 141 QR standard. It's fairly practical because it has wider spacing than regular QR, so it's slightly better, and no worse than regular QR, which worked fine for about 136 years anyway. Plus it can use modern hubs, so better again. I have two bikes with 141qr, one of them is a cargo bike and one hard tail.
My old 2000 hardtail (non boost) uses QR axles with discs. It has been my fall back bike when my FS was out of action and, was ridden quite hard over the years on rough terrain and rock gardens it probably wasn't designed for.
Every QR axle over the years has bent at least a little bit. Very easy to observe when tightening the QR in the dropouts.
The proper Shimano QR axles, made of steel and with an internal-cam mechanism on the lever have lasted much longer than other ones which are alloy (I think) or have external-cam lever mechanism.
If I was forced to use a QR141 bike for moderate to rough off-roading, I would check and upgrade my axle to a steel one, with decent brand name with a reliable internal-cam lever mechanism.
Every QR axle over the years has bent at least a little bit. Very easy to observe when tightening the QR in the dropouts.
The proper Shimano QR axles, made of steel and with an internal-cam mechanism on the lever have lasted much longer than other ones which are alloy (I think) or have external-cam lever mechanism.
If I was forced to use a QR141 bike for moderate to rough off-roading, I would check and upgrade my axle to a steel one, with decent brand name with a reliable internal-cam lever mechanism.
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[QUOTE="RobS100, post: 15848297, member: 958228"
After being completely out of the modern MTB world for years, I'm in the market for a new bike, and am learning a lot of new designs and specs that go into bikes nowadays. One is the Boost hub standard. I am 59 and weigh around 215, and will never race the bike, or really do any hard core off-roading, mostly commuting on a mix of street and light trails, with a bit of single track on occasion. The bike I'm seriously considering, a Trek X-Calibur 8, uses a Boost 5mm QR rear bub (thru axle up front). From everything I've read, it seems to be a weak point on an otherwise good looking bike, but is that for people who may race or really push their bikes regularly, or would someone like myself really have a problem? Is it easy to convert to Boost 148 without a new hub and complete wheel rebuild, or are there end cap adapters that will convert it? Or is the stock Trek Shimano Microspline freehub hub just trash and replace it all together if I were to buy the X-Calibur?
[/QUOTE]
I had a 2011 xcal, great bike rode it through a lot of nasty rock gardens and some intense down hills. It was a solid bike and had non boost at hubs front and rear, no thru axels on xc bikes of that era. Never had any issues other than a few broken spokes. I rode that bike hard and since moved on to trail FS. The new x Calibur is sweet and I wouldn't mind having one for xc trails. The biggest negative I hear about the 141 boost is the possible available wheel options in years to come. There won't be as many as a 148mm.
Converting to a larger axe is not possible because of frame spacing. I think that bike is a solid build at a great price.
After being completely out of the modern MTB world for years, I'm in the market for a new bike, and am learning a lot of new designs and specs that go into bikes nowadays. One is the Boost hub standard. I am 59 and weigh around 215, and will never race the bike, or really do any hard core off-roading, mostly commuting on a mix of street and light trails, with a bit of single track on occasion. The bike I'm seriously considering, a Trek X-Calibur 8, uses a Boost 5mm QR rear bub (thru axle up front). From everything I've read, it seems to be a weak point on an otherwise good looking bike, but is that for people who may race or really push their bikes regularly, or would someone like myself really have a problem? Is it easy to convert to Boost 148 without a new hub and complete wheel rebuild, or are there end cap adapters that will convert it? Or is the stock Trek Shimano Microspline freehub hub just trash and replace it all together if I were to buy the X-Calibur?
[/QUOTE]
I had a 2011 xcal, great bike rode it through a lot of nasty rock gardens and some intense down hills. It was a solid bike and had non boost at hubs front and rear, no thru axels on xc bikes of that era. Never had any issues other than a few broken spokes. I rode that bike hard and since moved on to trail FS. The new x Calibur is sweet and I wouldn't mind having one for xc trails. The biggest negative I hear about the 141 boost is the possible available wheel options in years to come. There won't be as many as a 148mm.
Converting to a larger axe is not possible because of frame spacing. I think that bike is a solid build at a great price.
I have a 10 year old full suspension with 135mm quick release dropouts in the rear. Am I going to die riding it?
I'm guessing it's a lower end Formula hub, which seems to be de-rigueur on most bikes at that price point. If that's the case, and you see a literal threaded axle sticking out, then it won't be possible to bring the wheelset to a new bike (not that you would want to).
As most(?) of the people here have pointed out, if you aren't explicitly seeking a through axle, for whatever reason, you will probably be okay without it. I would hazard a guess that most people that get bit by the upgrade bug just buy a new bike that has most of what they want on it, once they crunch the numbers.
As most(?) of the people here have pointed out, if you aren't explicitly seeking a through axle, for whatever reason, you will probably be okay without it. I would hazard a guess that most people that get bit by the upgrade bug just buy a new bike that has most of what they want on it, once they crunch the numbers.
Unpossible!!
You're already dead, you just haven't figured it out yet... Bruce?
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I used to ride the Redbull Rampage course and many other ridiculous riding zones/huge gaps and drops on the old 10mm QR rear dropouts (Santa Cruz Bullit). Nothing ever went wrong, seriously.
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That's actually why I was looking at spending more on the X-Calibur over say the Marlin 8, to get a Aplha Gold frame and Shimano drive train (a lot of other bikes at a close price point have 10x or lower end SRAM) that I wouldn't have to upgrade. Everything else looked perfect until I noticed the potential problem with the rear QR, it has dropper post holes and a tapered head if I do get an upgrade bug for another fork. But if Boost 141 is mainly only a problem for those that push it on hard trails on a regular basis, or want to upgrade the wheels, I can live with the "flaw". Hard to believe Trek would use a component that's a safety issue, or one that would wear out quickly.
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I had a 2011 xcal, great bike rode it through a lot of nasty rock gardens and some intense down hills. It was a solid bike and had non boost at hubs front and rear, no thru axels on xc bikes of that era. Never had any issues other than a few broken spokes. I rode that bike hard and since moved on to trail FS. The new x Calibur is sweet and I wouldn't mind having one for xc trails. The biggest negative I hear about the 141 boost is the possible available wheel options in years to come. There won't be as many as a 148mm.
Converting to a larger axe is not possible because of frame spacing. I think that bike is a solid build at a great price.
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I think you make a good point...many of us rode bikes without thru axles for years and didn't realize we needed them. Sure they're stiffer and more bomb proof, but until new technology comes out and makes what it replaces look bad, sometimes ignorance is bliss.
Just for the record, doesn't Boost 148 fit an X-Calibur frame, it's just the hub that isn't compatible?
Seriously.
TLDR - I think you'll be fine with the QR 141. QR141 will be more finicky when reseating the wheel than a thru-axle possibly creating some disc rub. This can be managed. Good news is if you buy new wheels, most boost 148 hubs can be converted to support QR141 with an end cap swap. So, you have an upgrade path if you desire. The only issue I see with QR is the failure mode if the QR skewer where to fail. However, this is not likely.
Now the too long part. Let's clear up some misconceptions.
The axle in the QR141 hub is not the 5 mm QR skewer. The axle in a thru-axle hub is not the thru-axle. Both the skewer and the thru axle slide thru the hub's axle.
It's possible that a QR hub uses a 10 mm axle which slots into the dropouts in the frame. This is how axles were made for a long time. The axle was longer than the OLD, the OLD is the frame spacing spec, in this case 141 mm. This was true until we got fancy hubs like hope, dt, i9, onyx etc. In those hubs - even before thru axles, the hub's axle is typically larger in diameter than the 10 mm of the frame interface to improve things like stiffness and strength, and possibly made of aluminum to reduce weight. In these hub designs the axle does not engage with the frame. The axle engages with end caps or bolts that then engage the frame.
Therefore, axle strength is not a matter of QR or Thru-axle. It's a matter of how the hub was designed. If you are concerned about this, then you need to fully understand the design of the hub in the bike you choose to purchase. Check out this thread if you doubt me. (1) Love my i9 Hydra hubs, but the breakage is mounting | Mountain Bike Reviews Forum (mtbr.com)
The negative of a QR hub is mostly about consistent alignment. There is play between the frame and the hub, so it's possible when you reseat the wheel it will be aligned slightly different than it was before. With disc brakes this can mean you get some disc brake rub. Maybe this could affect shifting. I'm not sure on that one. I have two bikes with QR's and disc brakes. I manage alignment by making sure that the axle - or end caps - that interface with the frame, is all the way forward in both dropouts prior to engaging the QR or bolts.
The other issue with QR is failure mode. If the QR skewer were to snap or the QR fail, there is nothing holding the wheel in the frame (other than gravity). Funny story. I actually rode my bike once without the QR skewer in and didn't notice it. This was short shake out ride. I got back and saw the QR sitting there and thought W-T-F. I don't recommend this.
A thru-axle is also a single point of failure. If a thru-axle snaps, the remaining now two-or-more-piece thru-axle remains captured by the frame, one end is still threaded into the frame, the other end - on most thru axle designs - has a full loop that requires the new thru-axle segment to slide all the way out before the wheel will come out. So, unless you fully remove one end of the thru-axle the wheel cannot come out.
Note that for nutted hubs or some bolt on hubs like Hope, CK, Surely Ultra new disc there is no single point of failure. In these hubs you have two independent bolts. Each with its own threads into the axle holding the wheel in the frame. So, if one fails the other is still engaged. The Surely Ultra New rears also have wicked consistent alignment with the "washers" they provide in Ritchey style dropouts. The hope 10 mm bolts also are a true 10 mm's and have very little play in the dropout providing consistent alignment.
TLDR - I think you'll be fine with the QR 141. QR141 will be more finicky when reseating the wheel than a thru-axle possibly creating some disc rub. This can be managed. Good news is if you buy new wheels, most boost 148 hubs can be converted to support QR141 with an end cap swap. So, you have an upgrade path if you desire. The only issue I see with QR is the failure mode if the QR skewer where to fail. However, this is not likely.
Now the too long part. Let's clear up some misconceptions.
The axle in the QR141 hub is not the 5 mm QR skewer. The axle in a thru-axle hub is not the thru-axle. Both the skewer and the thru axle slide thru the hub's axle.
It's possible that a QR hub uses a 10 mm axle which slots into the dropouts in the frame. This is how axles were made for a long time. The axle was longer than the OLD, the OLD is the frame spacing spec, in this case 141 mm. This was true until we got fancy hubs like hope, dt, i9, onyx etc. In those hubs - even before thru axles, the hub's axle is typically larger in diameter than the 10 mm of the frame interface to improve things like stiffness and strength, and possibly made of aluminum to reduce weight. In these hub designs the axle does not engage with the frame. The axle engages with end caps or bolts that then engage the frame.
Therefore, axle strength is not a matter of QR or Thru-axle. It's a matter of how the hub was designed. If you are concerned about this, then you need to fully understand the design of the hub in the bike you choose to purchase. Check out this thread if you doubt me. (1) Love my i9 Hydra hubs, but the breakage is mounting | Mountain Bike Reviews Forum (mtbr.com)
The negative of a QR hub is mostly about consistent alignment. There is play between the frame and the hub, so it's possible when you reseat the wheel it will be aligned slightly different than it was before. With disc brakes this can mean you get some disc brake rub. Maybe this could affect shifting. I'm not sure on that one. I have two bikes with QR's and disc brakes. I manage alignment by making sure that the axle - or end caps - that interface with the frame, is all the way forward in both dropouts prior to engaging the QR or bolts.
The other issue with QR is failure mode. If the QR skewer were to snap or the QR fail, there is nothing holding the wheel in the frame (other than gravity). Funny story. I actually rode my bike once without the QR skewer in and didn't notice it. This was short shake out ride. I got back and saw the QR sitting there and thought W-T-F. I don't recommend this.
A thru-axle is also a single point of failure. If a thru-axle snaps, the remaining now two-or-more-piece thru-axle remains captured by the frame, one end is still threaded into the frame, the other end - on most thru axle designs - has a full loop that requires the new thru-axle segment to slide all the way out before the wheel will come out. So, unless you fully remove one end of the thru-axle the wheel cannot come out.
Note that for nutted hubs or some bolt on hubs like Hope, CK, Surely Ultra new disc there is no single point of failure. In these hubs you have two independent bolts. Each with its own threads into the axle holding the wheel in the frame. So, if one fails the other is still engaged. The Surely Ultra New rears also have wicked consistent alignment with the "washers" they provide in Ritchey style dropouts. The hope 10 mm bolts also are a true 10 mm's and have very little play in the dropout providing consistent alignment.
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Thanks for all the info, helps me learn
. I'm hoping that baring flats, I won't need to take the real wheel off much, so kind of "set and forget" operation, though double checking the skewer will be routine.1 - 20 of 22 Posts
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