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Marino vs Waltly

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mack_turtle

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I am in the market for a new hardtail frame. I have some ideas in mind for geometry, and it seems I need to go custom to get exactly what I want. custom frames are outside the limits of my income bracket, so I'm looking at some lesser-known brands that do custom work.

Marino is in Peru and makes spartan-looking steel bikes. I've read some good reviews of them, but the process takes a very long time and it sounds like some QC problems occur for some people. YGWYPF! I'm more concerned with getting a bike that's heavy and stiff, which will feel like it's not worth the time spent on it. I can get a frame for something like $600. I emailed them last weekend and got an email with a preliminary drawing four days later.

Waltly makes titanium frames in China and gets good reviews. The last few I read about had full custom geometry and cost around $1,000 USD in the end. I just emailed them this morning. A Waltly would cost me more, but it's still 1/2 the cost of an Asian-made ti frame from another brand, and less than 1/4 the cost of a domestic ti frame.

anyone have experience to share about these to companies?
 
#2 ·
I loved my Marino. Welds were pretty ugly, and you do get what you pay for- but the buying process was easy, builder was great to work with, and to this day that was one of the most fun bikes I've ever owned. I beat the crap out of that thing playing polo on it and it never gave me any grief. Except the fork. That just broke. Apparently a common issue for Marinos.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I got poor alignment on the FS frame I got from Marino. The rear wheel wasn't centered, and was cocked to one side. Had to space out my DS BB to even get the crank to clear; the NDS crank had very slight overhang over the splines. Rode it for 500 mi before I noticed that the swingarm brace failed.

I tried a few shocks with it and couldn't get over how easily the rear used full travel, despite running really high spring rates.

The Hammerite-like paint was very soft. Wouldn't want to get something like that again. Rather have a more hardy practical coating.

The Marino-branded headset was garbage. So was the Marino-branded 1x chainguide.

I liked the compliance of the tubeset. I requested larger diameter tubing, since it was going to be a long bike (less extreme Grim Donut). He used the usual, I guess, and it turned out to have a level of stiffness that I didn't find to be bad. It was quite eye-opening, in fact, with how less painful it pedaled when mashing. I don't want to go back to race-stiff bikes again.

A year or two later, Pipedream released the Full Moxie, which had geo that was just a little less extreme that what I went with. I would pay the difference in price to have a production quality like that one; the Marino was just under $800 after the additional costs I paid before it shipped (customizations/adjustments and ship method). I passed on some of the things he offered like $500 for a DVO Topaz, which I ended up getting 2nd hand for under $300. A Full Moxie is 1300 currently w/o shock, which is quite appealing considering that the GBP value sunk.

Like you said, you get what you pay for. I'd go with Marino again if I wanted something that didn't exist for sale and wanted to prototype with my understanding of geo, and didn't mind a ~6 month wait. I'd say that it not only validated my understanding of geo, but made me go deeper. Peter Verdone has very similar thoughts on geo as me, regarding designing around the human, with them in a strong efficient position that is effortless to maintain.
 
#4 ·
Varaxis said:
I tried a few shocks with it and couldn't get over how easily the rear used full travel, despite running really high spring rates.
Click to expand...
They are using a falling-rate design on some of their bikes, so that's not surprising. One can make a progressive single pivot (no linkages) design, but you have to make the rear eyelet significantly behind the vertical line from the main pivot to the shock. The original GG DH bike is a good example of this. It often require a yoke, or interrupted seat tube or tilting the front end of the shock down. There are definitely steel bike examples of this...although not all that many. Looking at their website, it looks like some of their bikes have this characteristic, but others do not, no idea why they vary so much, but you'll see the number one issue with this is usually the seat-tube, you can't go back any further because it's in the way, so it usually takes much more radical (expensive and time consuming) manufacturing to achieve this when that's the case.
 
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Discussion starter · #6 ·
hardtails said:
Had a custom waltly hardtail.
Broken chainstay at the 6th ride.

Now i have a marino hardtail.done more than 6 rides already
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interesting. sounds like you get what you pay for either way. all the stories about mangled Marinos and now a broken Waltly make me not want to take the risk of buying anything at all.

What did Waltly do when you broke that frame? I'd think that, for that kind of money, you'd ask them to help you out. did that end up being a repair job or a partial refund?
 
#8 ·
mack_turtle said:
What did Waltly do when you broke that frame? I'd think that, for that kind of money, you'd ask them to help you out. did that end up being a repair job or a partial refund?
Click to expand...

i contacted them
they said, ship it to china, we will repair it. i said give me a label, they no. i should pay it but they would refund. i also should make a wrong custom declaration (frame arrvied my already with a wrong custom declaration).
i said it will costs xxx. they said it is to much. ask again, then they said i should search a frame builder who repairs the frame. i did not find one. they found one, i shippped the frame an got it back. that all took nearly 3 months. but i think it only worked like this becaue i still can get the paypal refund, without this i think i would still have a broken frame
never ridden the repaired frame. sold it to a lighter person how rides mostly ss xc.

i ordered the frame with the info 100kg and real enduro riding. and i think the chinese thought, he rides "enduro". so in my opinion the frame was to weak. there was a lot of flex in the front triangle that i did not like (sprinting you feel the frame movment) and also the downtube hat already 3 dents after this few rides
but i am not the first one who complain about the stiffnes, i know a 50kg lady who has also the feeling the frame is to weak.....


the marino i ordered with enduro and the 100kg info is much more stiffer then the waltly. the front triangle is even stiffer then my orange p7.
i realy like the marino, rides well. the welding is good. the waltly had a few welds which look good, but also a lot which look terrible (stays/dropouts for example)
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
Great feedback, @hardtails ! You outweigh me by at least 50 pounds, and I'm planning to ride XC on this bike. My rides often include some janky rock gardens, small jumps, and small drops, but probably not the amount of abuse you put on a bike. I'll consider that as well.

Waltly got back to me with a quote of $1,050 for a custom ti frame, not including shipping. It is probably going to be a much nicer frame than what Marino would build for half the price, but it's still experimental for me. If I spend a lot of money (subjective to me) and I don't like it, I'm going to be unhappy with myself. The much cheaper Marino experiment might be safer and tell me more about geometry for the day when I'm ready to lay down real money.

I should note that I recently discovered that I have a pathological aversion to spending money on myself, even if I have the budget for it. That's a conversation to have with a therapist, I suppose, but it males a decision like this a lot harder than it might be for someone who is less of a basketcase than me.
 
#11 ·
When you are ready to spend the money on a very nice custom frame, look at Samsara Cycles. I've been on mine for 5 years and it's still my favorite bike of all time. I've had a lot more expensive bikes but Matt builds amazing rides. He's up his prices since I bought but I will absolutely go with him when I decide to go with a new gravel bike. Very comfy and compliant, but quite a bit more than your looking to spend ATM.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 
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#12 ·
mack_turtle said:
Ouch, $1050 for the frame and $300 shipping. That is quickly approaching the cost of a few US company's stock titanium frames.
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Ordered a fat frame from Waltly last month. Price was $1200 + $350 shipping to the US. The frame price was fine as I could dial it in and get exactly what I want, but the shipping cost stung a bit. I hope it comes next-day air and wrapped in silk once it does ship. Still pulled the trigger, though it did make the decision harder vs going with a stock ti frame from someone.
 
#15 ·
I used to ride mountain unicycles quite a bit, did a lot of custom stuff, modified seats and grab handles, had a custom Ti frame built and rode Ti hubs.

Muni is really hard on parts, there’s a huge amount of torque on the frame and hubs, but I only ever broke the Ti frame and Ti hubs; steel and aluminum parts did just fine.

Ti is a flexy metal, welds tend to be a touch brittle, so they need to be very overbuilt to avoid breaking, Perhaps a steel frame from Walty would be a better choice?

I’m considering a pinion full suspension frame, but it makes nervous to order from anyone overseas due to return issues. Sadly I have not had much luck finding a domestic frame builder.
 
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