Ok. Got to wonder why it gets so good review then? Are you just meaning from a service/tuning perspetive? Your opinion is kind of the opposite compared to all reviews I've seen thus far.
The gap in understanding suspension between someone like Dougal and someone writing a pinkbike review is massive, and that's putting it lightly. Most reviewers just don't have a clue and especially compared to a suspension tech like Dougal. Reviewers also tend to go on about how great something new is, then when the new iteration of it comes out, all of a sudden it is addressing problems with the previous (current) version that they never mentioned. I can near guarantee when the Charger 3.1 or 4 or whatever comes out, they are all of a sudden gonna be talking about how harsh the previous iteration was and the new one improves on it.
Charger 3 does not get good reviews from anyone who knows what they are talking about.
I'm not sure your interpretation is right here. Are you suggesting that the "good old days" of air springs with virtually no negative volume were our golden years? Really soft air springs are NOT driven by negative volume, they're driven by the opposite...too little negative volume leads to a crazy stiff initial stroke that falls off, essentially requiring low pressures for sensitivity and contributing to a hammock-y feel where the fork dives through the midstroke, then hits a progression wall. Negative spring volume increases are the only thing that has been able to bring air springs into any semblance of competition in feel with a coil spring, and forks with dual positive chambers are taking that progress further.
I have an aftermarket air spring in my fork with more negative volume than stock, also a Megneg (which I ended up not using because I couldn't get on with it), but in my experience more negative volume doesn't make as big of a difference to small bump compliance in the real world (!) as some people say.
There's a thing I call "Newphoria" where everyone convinces themselves new stuff is better. The more expensive it is the more cognitive dissonance you see.
Ok, but then what 170 fork you think actually work as it whould without revalving it? nothing?
Everything will work. It just depends how well you want it to work.
wrong info on manitous homepage, disregard this.
Totally different markets, 99% of riders don't care how it was made, how it charts on a dyno, or if its easy to tune, they care how it performs on a trail. The new Zeb performs insanely well in real world conditions and that's what matters. Nobody can ride one and say it sucks, theyd be lying, maybe you can get a different fork and mod it to feel better but out of the box the new Zeb is probably the best out there.
Genuinely curious - from a tuner perspective, how do you see the Mezzer spring + damper as comparing to what Ohlins is doing? Ohlins seems to overdamp their forks for the average rider, but they're also easily tunable, and the air spring seems to work extremely well (happens to be extremely similar to the Mezzer). I'm not familiar with the internals side of things though, so curious where limitations or tradeoffs between the two may arise.
I can. It sucks, it really sucks compared to the Mezzer Pro and Ohlinx RXF36 m.2 coil I had, by a wide margin. It's either harsh or doesn't stand up to its travel, small bump compliance is medicore at best. Hell even the new Lyrik feels better IMO. I paid for one, bought it, rode it, hate it, and will be getting rid of it when my Mezzer comes in. Is it absolutely terrible? No, but there are much better forks out there and it sucks in comparison to them.
Are you actually talking about the 2023 zeb? not seen anyone else say with your opinion ". It's either harsh or doesn't stand up to its travel, small bump compliance is medicore at best." but everybody says exacly that about the -2022 zeb. 2022 zeb with the debonair+ air shaft may be a different story.
So like all of a sudden RS just magically figured out how to make a suspension fork in 2023 MY?
Of course! That's what they do every year, all the new forks are perfect until the next ones come out. Even if they suck. Especially if they suck.
2023 Zeb Ultimate 29 @ 170
Ohlins missed the boat on their two stage air-spring. The second stage is too small and comes in too late, it's basically a pneumatic bottom-out bumper that doesn't function at all like the Mezzer IRT. It's too firm off the top and also incredibly expensive for the service kits.
If you think a fork with a heavily preloaded damper piston performs insanely well, then I'm going to have to ask. What else have you ridden?
