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2023 Zeb Ultimate vs Mezzer Pro

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Blown Jammer

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Need a new "enduro" fork. I've been wanting to try a Mezzer out because I've been really impressed with their rear shocks but the updated Zeb has caught my eye too. Anyone here ridden both? Not interested in hearing your opinions on the previous Zeb version, that's not in the running here and these threads tend to get messy with all the opinions.

What I know:
  • The Zeb will be stiffer, but is heavier. Go figure. I'm only 175lbs so stiffness isn't my priority.
  • The Mezzer supposedly had better midstroke support vs the Zeb's charger 2.1 damper, but the new charger 3 damper improves this, so they say.
  • The Mezzer's IRT gives more adjustablilty over spring rate/progression
  • The Mezzer is cheaper to change travel on - no new air spring required. I'll be running either 170 or 180mm, will likely try both.
  • (not sure I believe this but) This blister review says the mezzer's "small-bump sensitivity is a bit less stellar" You are being redirected...
Especially interested in hearing about the small-bump sensitivity of both. The buttercups in the new Zeb seem interesting. Do they actually do anything?

Anyone lucky enough to have tried both?
 
#2 · (Edited)
I have a new Mezzer Pro 29 180mm 44 offset just fyi. Uncut. Selling it for $740 shipped. I also have a Mezzer Expert I used a lot over the summer on a Ripmo and Spire. The Mezzer Expert reminds me a lot, ride wise, of RockShox (owned a Zeb and Lyrik) except rides a little higher/more supportive. It is simple, works well, and easy to like. The CSU did start creaking last week and Manitou quickly offered warranty service. I can't speak for the newer charger 3 forks. What I'd say based on my experience with the previous Zeb is that the Mezzer is more versatile as a all mountain fork and the Zeb felt more like something I'd rather have for downhill riding or very challenging trails. It wasn't a daily driver. The Mezzer feels more like a daily driver you can still go beast mode should the situation arise. As far as small bump...meh...that is so subjective and you can always tune your fork to your preferences.
 
#4 ·
The Zeb air spring curve is weird. It's hard on the top, soft in the middle and through to the end it still doesn't match the starting rate (with 2 tokens). The Lyrik is actually a better fork IMO than the Zeb.

It's the weird air spring curve that causes people the most frustration with the Zeb. Soft Charger 2.1 damper is the second cause. A luftkappe will soften the Zeb at the start of the stroke but also make it more progressive. A secus is the proper cure.
 
#5 ·
Blown Jammer said:
Can you describe what you mean by that exactly? Did the zeb had more firm compression damping? Or the stiffer chassis was unforgiving at times?
Click to expand...
I didn't find it unforgiving. I think of it more like does the fork feel like something that is well rounded or does it feel like it was meant for fast , high speed riding? If you use your "enduro" bike for trail riding you'll have to decide the trade offs of a bigger fork in low speed situations.
 
#7 ·
Dougal said:
The Zeb air spring curve is weird. It's hard on the top, soft in the middle and through to the end it still doesn't match the starting rate (with 2 tokens). The Lyrik is actually a better fork IMO than the Zeb.

It's the weird air spring curve that causes people the most frustration with the Zeb. Soft Charger 2.1 damper is the second cause. A luftkappe will soften the Zeb at the start of the stroke but also make it more progressive. A secus is the proper cure.
Click to expand...
I guess you're talking about the 2021 Zeb with the old Debonair.
Totally reflects my impressions.
I have both - Lyrik and Zeb, and the Lyrik is a much better fork.

But for 2023 model Rockshox has copied the Luftkappe by releasing the Debonair+ and it feels much better. I would even say it's a bit better than the Lyrik in small bump sensitivity.

P.S. Can't say anything about the Charger 2.1 vs 3 as I'm running custom valves from a local tuner MST.
Image
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Yeah sounds like you're speaking on the old version @Dougal , have you tried the 2023 zeb?

Dougal said:
The Zeb air spring curve is weird. It's hard on the top, soft in the middle and through to the end it still doesn't match the starting rate (with 2 tokens). The Lyrik is actually a better fork IMO than the Zeb.

It's the weird air spring curve that causes people the most frustration with the Zeb. Soft Charger 2.1 damper is the second cause. A luftkappe will soften the Zeb at the start of the stroke but also make it more progressive. A secus is the proper cure.
Click to expand...
 
#9 ·
I own both. Assumptions are all accurate, except the mid stroke support differences are from the air spring, not the damper. I didn't find the mid stroke support of the Mezzer to be better than the Zeb. I actually had a hard time getting the mid to be progressive enough with the IRT. The Zeb air spring I haven't touched except for greasing it. Movement off the top is far better with the Zeb.
 
#10 ·
@Blown Jammer For a brawler fork...mezz vs Zeb aside...you might consider a RXF 36 and skip the 38mm stanchions. It is stiff, supportive, has a unique ramp adjust and never left me wanting more fork. Personally the 38mm stanchions don't appeal to me a lot unless I was using it solely for park/shuttle riding. I live in a mountainous rocky area and in the most challenging rides have found forks like the rxf 36, Fox 36, mezzer to do anything you can dish out. Not that there's anything wrong with the 38 crew...just saying examine your riding and don't buy a fork for the 5% situations...but one that fits most of your riding.
 
#11 ·
Dougal said:
The Zeb air spring curve is weird. It's hard on the top, soft in the middle and through to the end it still doesn't match the starting rate (with 2 tokens). The Lyrik is actually a better fork IMO than the Zeb.

It's the weird air spring curve that causes people the most frustration with the Zeb. Soft Charger 2.1 damper is the second cause. A luftkappe will soften the Zeb at the start of the stroke but also make it more progressive. A secus is the proper cure.
Click to expand...
You said something similar in another thread but never clarified. Are you talking about the 2021-2022 Zeb or the 2023 Zeb? The 2023 has a redesigned air spring.
 
#12 ·
I've never used a Mezzer but the new Zeb is great, it has the midstroke support of a 38 but 10x the small bump sensitivity and plushness. Going between a 38 and Zeb 3 feels totally different, the 38 midstroke is so good I was worried the new Zeb wouldnt be able to match it but it does and the plushness at the beginning is ridiculous, far better than a 38. I was a big fan of the 38 and almost didnt get a Zeb to upgrade another bike but I'm glad I did since its the better fork.
 
#13 ·
You can also be sure that RS will have lots of places to get parts and service. Not that I've run in to any availability issues for Manitou...just saying that running one of the most common brands...less likely to ever be waiting on any parts or service. I can say from having warrantied Fox shocks...their service is excellent, fast, courteous.
 
#14 ·
mafflin said:
I guess you're talking about the 2021 Zeb with the old Debonair.
Totally reflects my impressions.
I have both - Lyrik and Zeb, and the Lyrik is a much better fork.

But for 2023 model Rockshox has copied the Luftkappe by releasing the Debonair+ and it feels much better. I would even say it's a bit better than the Lyrik in small bump sensitivity.

P.S. Can't say anything about the Charger 2.1 vs 3 as I'm running custom valves from a local tuner MST.
View attachment 2007676
Click to expand...
They're simply robbing Peter to pay Paul.

The Zeb air spring has really limited space, they are taking up 190mm of stroke and the notch location is already fixed. You can Luftkappe it (as RS have effectively done) but you can only get a little more negative without making positive way too progressive.
This is why Fox ran the internal air-tube and 34mm piston in the F38. Because otherwise they ran out of volume.

The fix is the Secus. It uses external volume for the negative spring increase.
 
#15 ·
I'm getting the impression you like the Secus. :ROFLMAO:

A lot of times when people talk about forks being plush or small bump sensitive...I appreciate that character...but when I go out and ride...I want my fork to take hits, provide traction, and help me go faster. I don't really care if it irons out every little bump. I also find that the rear suspension can affect what you think about your fork. When I switch shocks I often notice that what I thought was my fork was in part my rear suspension. The better my shock set up...the better my fork tends to feel.
 
#16 ·
As a 2021 Zeb owner with a Secus attached, I can echo Dougal's sentiments. Zeb w/out Secus felt weird and I was constantly compromising between off-the-top and mid-stroke support. After adding a Secus, it has been amazing. Soft off-the-top, mid-stroke support for days, and lots of bottom-out resistance.

in 170mm configuration on a Sentinel V2.
195lb rider in Tahoe terrain. Fairly steep with lots of rocks. Also ridden in Whistler with a similar experience.

my 2 cents.
 
#17 ·
I own Mezzer Pro and Zeb Ultimate 2023. I have been riding Mezzer for exactly 2 years and Zeb for 2 months and absolutely my vote and my heart is for Zeb. First of all, Zeb is much much more plush and has 10 times greater small bump sensivity which you can feel on the road. So you get less tension on the hands but mainly you feel as your tire is glued to the ground. And it is somethng you do not have to think of it, You just feel it immediately. Then, Zeb is completely quite. What satisfying feeling it is:) It is so simple to set. On the Mezzer I was like I could set pressure every ride because it has never reach my point of what fork is supposed to give me. And it was so frustrating. On the Zeb you can feel while pressing the fork that it can easily deflect. On the Mezzer you feel like something is holding it and you have to use more pressure to suppress it.
I could only imagine how the Zeb would work with the modification with real spring inside but so far there is no need to do so:)
 
#18 ·
mafflin said:
I guess you're talking about the 2021 Zeb with the old Debonair.
Totally reflects my impressions.
I have both - Lyrik and Zeb, and the Lyrik is a much better fork.

But for 2023 model Rockshox has copied the Luftkappe by releasing the Debonair+ and it feels much better. I would even say it's a bit better than the Lyrik in small bump sensitivity.

P.S. Can't say anything about the Charger 2.1 vs 3 as I'm running custom valves from a local tuner MST.
View attachment 2007676
Click to expand...
How much is 2023 Lyrik ?
 
#20 ·
2023 would have the new spring, and damper.

That looks like the older air spring, my 2023 lyrik calls it denonair+ on trailhead app/page
 
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