My brakes are seriously overpowered and I am looking for ways to tone things down a bit. The cheapest option is to switch from sintered metallic pads to resin ones. How would you describe the difference in stopping power- is it subtle, noticeable, substantial, serious? Or maybe someone can give me a number based on studies done- 10% less, etc. Any help is much appreciated!
Power of resin vs sintered pads
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uphiller
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The obvious is to downsize rotors but that's no guarantee you'll have the power you're looking for. I've always found servo just ramps up power too soon. Many love that, other's not so much. Even with good manual modulation the power ramp up can step in when you don't always want it. I'm currently running shigura with servo levers. I was running shigura with non servo. Non servo completely removes the dramatic power ramp up. I loved the initial bite and mid stroke but found outright power lacking for my taste so I'm running servo. If you want to stick with shimano, you will find a very balanced, linear power delivery with non servo levers. I would say a 15% outright power reduction in addition to removing the power ramp up. I'm basing that on how 1" rotor differences tend to be 20 to 30% respectively.
You could just sell your servo brake set and try something other than shimano. There are a number of brakes that have great modulation that even in an overkill set up wouldn't feel overkill because of how the power is delivered.
You could just sell your servo brake set and try something other than shimano. There are a number of brakes that have great modulation that even in an overkill set up wouldn't feel overkill because of how the power is delivered.
My working theory on that would be that the coefficient of friction is different with those rotors if that is the only change in the system. I have never operated a Magura bike braking system.
I am not able to reconcile the contact area reduction of the pad/rotor interface altering braking torque in a friction only model. If this lower braking torque occurs with a cold rotor then it is not likely a thermal phenomena.
Sounds like a mismatch of rider and brake. Shimanos are known for their on off feel, people love or hate them (put me in the hate camp). Sram Codes or possibly TRP are your brakes. Sell the Shimanos and get one of the others. Not cheap, but cheaper than spending money on the Shimanos that will never do what you want.
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Shimano's and 203 rotors will get you if you arent used to them. I run Zees and 203's and have learned to feather them, but I have all the power in the world on tap which I love. You could pickup some Sram Guides which have the opposite problem and then downsize to 180 rotors?
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I have a bunch of different brake offerings, including SRAM and Shimano. Set up properly, I love them all. They have vastly different feels but on the trail, they all just disappear as soon as I start riding.
Whenever I ride a bike with Maguras though, hot damn. Those are the ticket for me. And I have none in the stable. Gotta get me some.
Whenever I ride a bike with Maguras though, hot damn. Those are the ticket for me. And I have none in the stable. Gotta get me some.
Count me in the Magura camp. Love my MT5s. My son prefers Codes and they are good feeling with nice modulation. Either of them work well. Neither of like Shimano.
I guess it depends what and how fast you ride...I mean I can modulate Shimano just fine and found HOPE to feel way under powered but if you ride xc and like modulation there is nothing wrong with that. However if you ride down say a 30 degree decline for 100 - 200m no brake is too grabby...certain steepness and speeds require a lot of braking power...the faster you go the more modulation sharper brakes feel like they have and the sketchier under powered less bitey brakes feel. With sharper brakes you can scrub speed earlier and prepare better for the corner, HOPE I felt like there was a delay in power, you already travelled a good few extra meters before you hit the power you need to start scrubbing away speed....plus not to mention they definitely weren't a true 1 finger brake.
So I guess to OP if you want loads of modulation, less power and bling with weak 1 finger braking....I highly recommend HOPE...sarcasm aside, apart from the low power and poor bite, they are actually nice brakes...just after trying brakes that are truly 1 finger and have a lot more power HOPE levels of modulation aren't for me anymore.
So I guess to OP if you want loads of modulation, less power and bling with weak 1 finger braking....I highly recommend HOPE...sarcasm aside, apart from the low power and poor bite, they are actually nice brakes...just after trying brakes that are truly 1 finger and have a lot more power HOPE levels of modulation aren't for me anymore.
I know what you mean with Hopes. Beautifully made brakes, great durability/ reliability, seem to never drag, company is known for amazing customer support... but the brakes are seriously underpowered. I don't want to go from one problem to the opposite one.
I really think it's possible to have (most of) the best of both worlds. The human hand is good at creating small changes in grip strength but there is a limit and that limit is different for different people. Some can create extremely fine differences in grip strength, others less so. I guess I am in the second camp.
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Shimanos are odd brakes for me. In an xc type riding environment, I do just fine with them and their reduced modulation range. Even with big rotors, it just wasn't a problem. However, when things got nasty, I found that modulation insufficient. It's such a narrow band that I found it contributing to arm pump as I had to be absolutely dialed with how much pressure I was applying. Holding that over a several mile descent super precisely just wasn't pleasant. I decided to skip Shimano 4 piston brakes and use a different brand because I wanted to try something with a different lever feel.
I've never got on with SRAM brakes. They just feel mushy to me. Even when freshly bled. My wife does fine with them, but I can't stand them.
The Hayes Dominions hit a sweet spot for lever feel for me. Good modulation, but a definite feeling for where braking begins and when lockup occurs. I can adjust lever pressure during a nasty descent and feel a difference, but that difference isn't "not enough brake/speed getting away from me" or "I'm gonna go OTB" like Shimanos can be. There are now both 2 piston and 4 piston variants.
It's been 20yrs since I bought Magura brakes, so I'm sure they feel different than what I used BITD. Also haven't tried any of the nicer TRP brakes but have heard good things.
I've never got on with SRAM brakes. They just feel mushy to me. Even when freshly bled. My wife does fine with them, but I can't stand them.
The Hayes Dominions hit a sweet spot for lever feel for me. Good modulation, but a definite feeling for where braking begins and when lockup occurs. I can adjust lever pressure during a nasty descent and feel a difference, but that difference isn't "not enough brake/speed getting away from me" or "I'm gonna go OTB" like Shimanos can be. There are now both 2 piston and 4 piston variants.
It's been 20yrs since I bought Magura brakes, so I'm sure they feel different than what I used BITD. Also haven't tried any of the nicer TRP brakes but have heard good things.
Do you use 1 finger though?
Try smaller rotors. Swapped the 200m front for a 180 on my wife's bike and she likes it a lot better. With the bigger rotor her front wheel locked up way too easily. She weighs only 130lbs (compared to my 200) so kinda makes sense, and 180s are plenty for her.
Alternatively, I ride SRAM guide and code rsc and love them. Very easy to modulate, plenty of power, and really only felt the need for codes when at the bike park. I have tried various sram and shimano brakes through the years and of those, guide/code are my favorite.
Alternatively, I ride SRAM guide and code rsc and love them. Very easy to modulate, plenty of power, and really only felt the need for codes when at the bike park. I have tried various sram and shimano brakes through the years and of those, guide/code are my favorite.
Friction, and coefficients thereof, is an empirical/theoretical thing that matches up to reality pretty often, but isn't mathematically precise.
In theory, reduction of area of contact proportionally increases the pressure from the normal force from the friction equation, while also reducing the area of contact between the surfaces. All of that assuming that the contact is uniform as is the distribution of force/pressure from the normal force, Ff = m * Fn.
That works out great, most of the time, especially as a comparator between material pairs with different coefficients of friction, i.e. as a relative measure of frictive force.
But in the real world, especially with kinetic friction, a lot of factors can come into play, the contact area being one of them. Probably the best way to account for it in the context of disc brakes is that a rotor with lots of open space in the contact area has a different/lower coefficient of friction than one with more solid braking surface, for a given set of rotor/pad materials.
I do.
Well I now the UBER finned rotors look cool.. the same ones can be bought on Ali Express under different names and ebay for much less...I really wanted them to work cos they look great and should stay cool but they had much worse bite and power than Magura rotors so I swapped them put straight away. If you are looking for a cheap way to get less power other than pad choice they may be worth a look...ironic recommending a rotor that produces less bite but they look good at least 
Oil Slick Floating Disc Rotor | eBay
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I've been a huge fan of Shimano's 4pot XT brakes for their on/off feel. I remember the first time I used them and wondered if I went over-board, since they were so powerful. But I adjusted to them, and now I stop nice and controlled. I recently got some Code RSC's on my other bike and love them as well.
They are both very good brakes. I can say that going from one brake system to the other doesn't require any adjustment period. My fingers adjust instantly. No matter your brake setup, your brain will adjust accordingly within one ride.
They are both very good brakes. I can say that going from one brake system to the other doesn't require any adjustment period. My fingers adjust instantly. No matter your brake setup, your brain will adjust accordingly within one ride.
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4,610 Posts
To increase modulation and feel with Shimano brakes wind the pad contact screw out several turns so that levers move more and get to a more progressive point in the leverage curve. This will move the levers and you will need to reset them back to where you like them.
Another good trick is to make sure they max out close to the grips without touching. This has the most finger leverage and sensitivity.
Also size down rotors will decrease power.
If you need pads Trickstuff ones are the best. they are more progressive with better feel. They also have great power, but it's easier to use.
Another good trick is to make sure they max out close to the grips without touching. This has the most finger leverage and sensitivity.
Also size down rotors will decrease power.
If you need pads Trickstuff ones are the best. they are more progressive with better feel. They also have great power, but it's easier to use.
Read reviews of the new tech 4 levers. Vital raved about them. 30% increase in power over tech 3 should bring them inline with everyone else in terms of outright power. Hope has always had the best modulation on the market, but outright power has always been an issue. If you haven't tired well modulated brakes it can be an eye opener coming off servo. Hayes, hope, magura, trick stuff, TRP, and sram all offer much more linear power delivery. Basically everything offers smoother power delivery than servo. Shimano dialed back the servo wave power cure but it's still like a bull in a china shop compared to other brakes.
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Same experience, but it’s just a matter of getting used to them. For anyone, including the OP.
Personally, I would NEVER give up sheer power. I haven’t ridden any brakes in the last several years that I couldn’t modulate, after a few rides at least, regardless of power. Are there any?
I prefer my SRAM Guide Ultimates over everything I have, including my Shimanos, but not just because of modulation. Like I said above though, I love them all. I mean really, is there a decent brake out there right now that one can’t modulate after a little practice? I have zero issues with my 4 pot XTs, 4 pot SLXs and 2 pot SLXs. It’s just a matter of having them set up correctly and getting used to them.
I wish I had the OP’s problem. I can NEVER have too much power. Magura…here I come…
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