Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Shimano 12 speed, which chainring ?

Jump to Latest
21 - 40 of 41 Posts
#22 ·
This is decent IMO if OP's bike is 190/197. Cranks for fat bike are hard to find so cheaper than that won't happen useless he's lucky and can find a used set. I personally ordered Turbine, have them on a hardtail and on my fat (6+ years) without any issue

Race Face Ride Cinch Fat Bike Crank Arms
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#23 ·
LewisQC said:
This is decent IMO if OP's bike is 190/197. Cranks for fat bike are hard to find so cheaper than that won't happen useless he's lucky and can find a used set. I personally ordered Turbine, have them on a hardtail and on my fat (6+ years) without any issue

Race Face Ride Cinch Fat Bike Crank Arms
Click to expand...
That is more expensive than the price on raceface's website right now and shipping from universal is non viable.

This is better. $126 cdn, plus $8 shipping, (plus tax of course). Add blackspire 28T from CRC for $30 (plus shipping tax).
Race Face Ride 24mm MTB Crank Arms - Black | ProBikeKit Canada
 
#24 ·
smashysmashy said:
That is more expensive than the price on raceface's website right now and shipping from universal is non viable.

This is better. $126 cdn, plus $8 shipping, (plus tax of course). Add blackspire 28T from CRC for $30 (plus shipping tax).
Race Face Ride 24mm MTB Crank Arms - Black | ProBikeKit Canada
Click to expand...
good price indeed. My bad, I've look only for Turbine so that's why I bought from Universal, only place where they were available. With this price it's a no brainer...
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#25 ·
LewisQC said:
good price indeed. My bad, I've look only for Turbine so that's why I bought from Universal, only place where they were available. With this price it's a no brainer...
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's the trade. universal has everything, but its expensive. pbk/merlin/crc have random stock, but sometimes have crazy prices (they also have the atlas crank for $180). I got my turbine ages ago from jenson.
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Thanks, you guys are awesome, and yes my bike is 197mm. At this price its almost not more expensive than the 80$ 11s chainring from blackspire and the 60$ kmc x12 chain and i'm more certain it would ne compatible.
 
#27 ·
fatbikephil said:
Thanks, you guys are awesome, and yes my bike is 197mm. At this price its almost not more expensive than the 80$ 11s chainring from blackspire and the 60$ kmc x12 chain and i'm more certain it would ne compatible.
Click to expand...
If you do go blackspire from whatever supplier(they sell direct too), remember is needs to be the "shimano 12" (labeled X12 I think) cinch model, and not just 8-12 in the description, cause that is not the same thing (I wish it was more clear in the listings)
 
#28 ·
Your cheapest and easiest option is to simply run a standard steel ring (I think they're available in that tooth count) with either a seat tube or ISCG? mount chain guide.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#31 ·
How does it shift better? 11 speed uses Hyperglide+, the 11 and 12 speed derailleurs are interchangeable, and you can still pop on a 12 speed chain if you desire. I'm actually running an aftermarket lightweight crank on my 11 speed with 12 speed direct mount chain rings, as that's all I can find in 26/28 tooth counts
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#32 ·
speedygz said:
How does it shift better? 11 speed uses Hyperglide+, the 11 and 12 speed derailleurs are interchangeable, and you can still pop on a 12 speed chain if you desire. I'm actually running an aftermarket lightweight crank on my 11 speed with 12 speed direct mount chain rings, as that's all I can find in 26/28 tooth counts
Click to expand...
Ah, fair enough, if he was talking about 5100. I haven't used that one. When I think 11 I think of m6000/7000/8000 which I found awful.
 
#33 ·
smashysmashy said:
Ah, fair enough, if he was talking about 5100. I haven't used that one. When I think 11 I think of m6000/7000/8000 which I found awful.
Click to expand...
What did you find that was awful? I've run M7000 myself previously for a few years as 1X and 2X, and found it excellent. Reliable, long lasting, excellent shifting, nothing I could find that I would describe as awful. Just curious
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#34 ·
Shifting was super fussy. The slightest hanger misalignment would make it skip all over. the chains would last a few weeks before they were stretched out and skipping. Same issue on road 11s as well.

10 was great, 12 is great, 11 sucked. Ha. :)
 
#35 ·
speedygz said:
Your cheapest and easiest option is to simply run a standard steel ring (I think they're available in that tooth count) with either a seat tube or ISCG? mount chain guide.
Click to expand...
If he has 12spd, he cannot use a standard steel chainring with a 12spd Shimano chain.

speedygz said:
How does it shift better? 11 speed uses Hyperglide+, the 11 and 12 speed derailleurs are interchangeable, and you can still pop on a 12 speed chain if you desire. I'm actually running an aftermarket lightweight crank on my 11 speed with 12 speed direct mount chain rings, as that's all I can find in 26/28 tooth counts
Click to expand...
HG+ requires both the cassette and chain to be HG+. Deore 5100 is HG. Deore 6100 is both 12spd and HG+. Do not confuse the interoperability you have with 11spd Deore 5100 with the limits on 12spd with HG+. These are very different systems.

speedygz said:
What did you find that was awful? I've run M7000 myself previously for a few years as 1X and 2X, and found it excellent. Reliable, long lasting, excellent shifting, nothing I could find that I would describe as awful. Just curious
Click to expand...
The gear spacing on the OG 11spd Shimano cassettes was simply terrible. I used Sunrace cassettes instead, which had better shifting. The shifter force required was excessive. It's still a bit high on the newer stuff, but it sucked on the OG 11spd. Otherwise, it worked reliably. I won't complain about that. But it did have some terrible aspects to it.
 
#36 ·
mtbfree said:
Subquestion - do you even move with 26t chainring and 51t on cassete? Cadence must be like 150 not to fall over or gradient of climbing 45% :)
Back to OP - sounds like a good plan, unfortunatelly 12s can be great OR can be very tricky to setup and customize
Click to expand...
yes you do.....its used for super steep climbs, especially good on long super steep climbs....works great
 
#37 · (Edited)
Harold said:
If he has 12spd, he cannot use a standard steel chainring with a 12spd Shimano chain.

Just measured up a standard steel inner chainring, 1.95 mm. Same as the narrow teeth on my 12 speed N/W 12 speed chainrings -within 0.02mm anyway. Measured with a micrometer. From what I can find, 12 speed chain is 2.18mm inner width, unless Shimano has done something different here. So I can't see why it wouldn't work.

HG+ requires both the cassette and chain to be HG+. Deore 5100 is HG. Deore 6100 is both 12spd and HG+. Do not confuse the interoperability you have with 11spd Deore 5100 with the limits on 12spd with HG+. These are very different systems.

I don't think they are "very different systems" I can't pick any differences between 5100 & 6100 as far as ramps & profiles etc. On the larger sprockets anyway. Look exactly the same to me. My 5100 shifts pretty much instantly under full load, & I'm about 97-98kg, standing on the pedals. Definitely better/faster than plain HG. I also can't find any definitive explanation as to what makes an HG+ chain.

The gear spacing on the OG 11spd Shimano cassettes was simply terrible. I used Sunrace cassettes instead, which had better shifting. The shifter force required was excessive. It's still a bit high on the newer stuff, but it sucked on the OG 11spd. Otherwise, it worked reliably. I won't complain about that. But it did have some terrible aspects to it.
Click to expand...
I've run both, & my experience is quite different to yours. The Shimano stuff definitely shifts better. Not a lot of difference, but it's there. Excessive shifter force? Really? I prefer XT shifters myself, they require a tiny bit more pressure -Deore & SLX are lighter/softer shifting, but the XT is much more precise feeling. Personal preference really I guess. Personally, I've never checked a hanger bracket alignment in my life, & never had any shifting issues, & I've gone outside recommended specs on more than one occasion -for example running my M7100 11-46 as a 2X, with 12T difference between chainrings. Which is definitely outside the capacity. It still works brilliantly. Yeah, the gap between 37 & 46 is quite large, but I kind of like the more defined difference between the granny & next ratio.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#38 ·
speedygz said:
I've run both, & my experience is quite different to yours. The Shimano stuff definitely shifts better. Not a lot of difference, but it's there. Excessive shifter force? Really? I prefer XT shifters myself, they require a tiny bit more pressure -Deore & SLX are lighter/softer shifting, but the XT is much more precise feeling. Personal preference really I guess. Personally, I've never checked a hanger bracket alignment in my life, & never had any shifting issues, & I've gone outside recommended specs on more than one occasion -for example running my M7100 11-46 as a 2X, with 12T difference between chainrings. Which is definitely outside the capacity. It still works brilliantly. Yeah, the gap between 37 & 46 is quite large, but I kind of like the more defined difference between the granny & next ratio.
Click to expand...
the difference between shimano 11spd and 12spd chains is very well documented. wolftooth probably has the easiest-to-understand graphical explanation of how shimano 12spd chains interface differently with chainrings. those differences are far more complicated than what you have measured with your micrometer. It's not the absolute width of the teeth that creates interfacing issues. It's the fact that the Shimano 12spd chains have some "mushrooming" tapers on the inner surfaces of the chain plates near the pins. These are especially prominent at the quick link. All this has been discussed ad nauseam for, what, 2 1/2 yrs since HG+ came out now?

Image


Of course Shimano is cagey about the specifics of what makes the HG+ system. It's proprietary and it's new, so Shimano wants to protect that. But it IS different from plain old HG. Otherwise, there's no need for a different name for it. HG+ is absolutely different from regular HG. The first time I rode 12spd HG+ coming from my 11spd HG bike, the shifting felt very nearly like electronic shifting.

And yes, excessive shifter force for the original 11spd systems. This was also well-documented on these forums. Something about those made them very sensitive to setup, and some bikes had real trouble getting shifting to be completely smooth and effortless. I worked in a shop when that generation of stuff came out and it was pretty common for us to get bikes where the downshift effort was massive, for some inexplicable reason. My personal bike that used it was okay, but I was also meticulous with my cable routing (often routing differently than the frame manufacturer accommodated on the frame).

if you've never checked a hanger or had any shifting issues, have you really mountain biked?
 
#39 ·
Harold said:
I suspect your level of success with using those no-name chainrings is related to the sloppy tolerances of said no-name chainrings, so they didn't cause problems with the narrower inner plates of the Shimano 12spd chains. I attempted using older Wolftooth and Absolute Black rings with my Shimano 12spd stuff when I first got it, and it was a definite no go with the Shimano quick links. I was able to fudge a temporary solution with an Eagle quick link on those same rings, however. It was a solution I became increasingly uncomfortable using long-term as I started to read about how the shimano chains interface with shimano chainrings, which is subtly different from previous drivetrains. Not from a catastrophic failure standpoint, but rather from the standpoint of getting excessive wear.
Click to expand...
There's no question the chains didn't fit all that tight, but they still never fell off the rings, which was my only objective. I just picked up a legit m8100 chainring as part of an ill-advised(?) and over-budget project to install a power meter on my old-school hardtail, so we'll see if I can see any differences.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
#40 ·
ghettocruiser said:
There's no question the chains didn't fit all that tight, but they still never fell off the rings, which was my only objective. I just picked up a legit m8100 chainring as part of an ill-advised(?) and over-budget project to install a power meter on my old-school hardtail, so we'll see if I can see any differences.
Click to expand...
I guess if you're going to have loose and sloppy tolerances, tis better to go a little too small than too big. When I tried the WT and AB rings (not HG+ compatible), those have tighter tolerances on 11spd chains (where I had used them previously) that were too tight on HG+, and my chain would ride up on top of the teeth at the quick link and be just a little too snug elsewhere.
 
21 - 40 of 41 Posts
About this Discussion
40 Replies
11 Participants
Last post:
PuddleDuck
Mountain Bike Reviews Forum
posts
16M
members
534K
Since
1990
A forum community dedicated to Mountain Bike owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General Discussion Downhill - Freeride California - Norcal Shocks and Suspension Passion