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Seems like most people are going away from racks and panniers to seat and frame bags

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DeoreDX

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I'm not a bikepacker (Yet). I do have a rack and a set of panniers bags on my old 26" mtb I use for town duties. I can carry a lot of stuff on that cheap blackburn rack.

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I've been wanting an "Adventure" bike. Something for mixed surface gravel, road, and single-track with the thought of eventually using it for bikepacking. I picked up an older 2016 model Salsa Mukluk for this purpose. Started looking into what people are using for carrying their stuff on bikes and it seems like most people are going away from racks and panniers and moving to smaller bags strapped all over the bike. I've done ultralight weight backpacking in the past and my 3 seasons gear (tent, 20 degree bag, water filter, cookware, spare clothes, food, water etc) would fit into a 35l backpack. Seems like i could easily fit that and more in my panniers on a rack and not need stuff strapped all over every inch of my bike.

Just checked my el cheapo Amazon panniers are 65l. What I have:

www.amazon.com

Amazon.com: HUNTVP Bike Pannier Bag Bicycle Rear Rack Bag Waterproof - 3 in 1 Cycling Multi Function Rear Seat Bag with Rain Cover : Sports & Outdoors

Buy HUNTVP Bike Pannier Bag Bicycle Rear Rack Bag Waterproof - 3 in 1 Cycling Multi Function Rear Seat Bag with Rain Cover: Panniers & Rack Trunks - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
www.amazon.com

Is there a reason people are moving away from the rack/pannier systems to the... stuff strapped all over my bike system? Curious to hear some first hand experience contrasting the two systems. Fancy frame bag and dry bags on carriers on the forks do look a heck of a lot more adventurey and grammable.
 
#2 ·
This has been discussed a lot in this forum. There are pros and cons to each approach.

Panniers are almost always easier to pack than soft bags, due to their large compartments. Also easier to over pack.

Rack n pannier systems have more points of failure, IME...bolts break, bag attachments fail, etc. It's happened to me on road tours more than once. Of course soft bag systems can fail, but can also generally be fixed with some rope, a spare strap, or duct tape.

Soft bag systems are generally more amenable to singletrack, being narrower on the bike and less bouncey. If you are talking about riding real chunk, soft bags have a definite advantage in being more stable than panniers.

Soft bag systems are better for hike-a-bike...panniers tend to get in the way when pushing the bike up hills.

I also come from a backpacking background, and was thrilled to find that all of my high-zoot UL gear translates perfectly to bikepacking. Having small and compressible gear (single wall tents, 800+ fill quilts, etc.) also makes that stuff much easier to pack on the bike, no matter your system.

Another item in the 'con' column for soft bags is cost, at least for the good stuff. Just like with backpacking t is worth it IMO to spend good money on stuff you use a lot, but it is a significant cost to outfit a bike with quality soft bags.

If I were starting out, and I had a rack n pannier system, I would not hesitate to load em up and get out there.

I personally have come to prefer a bit of a hybrid system...lots of soft bags, but I much prefer a rear rack to a seat bag because it lets me use my seat dropper, and it is also generally a more flexible system...I can strap a dry bag to the top (typical), or use other attachment systems including panniers.

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#3 ·
It’s a weight distribution thing for me, even when I’m not riding singletrack. I tried commuting with a rack and panniers and hated the feeling of the steering being light because most of the load was over the back wheel. Frame bags keep a lot of your weight low on the COG and you can balance the cockpit and seat post bag so your load doesn’t feel at all cumbersome. I can’t imagine riding trail with a rear rack and panniers flopping around.
 
#4 · (Edited)
I recently did the math. Traditional F & R panniers on racks can carry more. I added up Ortleib gear, the pannier (BackRoller/SportRoller) method was at least 70 liters vs. the bikepacking method with a large duffel off the h-bar and the large seat bag, plus a frame back was around 37 liters (Ortleib F & R bags and frame bag). What most folks find gets squeezed is food, which then limits your number of days out without re-supply. Panniers with F & R racks are also pricier. The two methods I priced using gear available at REI was panniers and racks at around $650, vs. $485 for bikpacking method. And the weight, panniers and racks are heavier. One benefit to panniers is its more likely you can fit some gear you might already own and is not "lightweight" style backpacking gear. If you need to buy new gear to fit it into your bikepacking bags, that adds up in cost really quick. I would guess a bikepacking load on a lighter 22-23 lbs gravel bike vs. panniers on a touring bike might save 15 lbs or so. My tourer is 31 lbs, my gravel is 22.

Type of bike used drives your choice though, if the route you are riding requires a mt. bike, you wont be using racks and panniers.
 
#5 ·
A combined 107l? Wow, that's a huge amount of carry. I generally backpack with a 60l pack. Then again, I tarp, and my baseload is considered more ultralight than light.
 
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#7 ·
I have components of both systems. I tend to use the soft bags for bikepacking/camping types of stuff because the bike is more maneuverable with gear attached that way.

But the traditional rack and panniers setup gets used for town hauling duties. If all your carry is on a rear rack, then yeah, your front end is going to get light and squirrely. You have to balance that load up front, also, to maintain stability. For pure load hauling, this method can still haul more. Part of it depends on having a bike meant to haul this way. Part also depends on having racks meant to haul the load you have. Otherwise, things get flexy.

For bulky loads with odd shapes, strapping it to a rack is more likely to enable you to transport it, short of having a cargo bike. It's still the preferred method for long distance traditional tourers, yet you do see those folks also adopting soft bags where they make sense for the load they're carrying.
 
#9 ·
I've done 1000's of miles of road touring carrying 60 to 80 lbs of gear, my main concern was bike handling. It wasn't uncommon to hit speeds of 50mph plus on downhills so having the weight down low on the bike was key. Rear panniers and front panniers on a low rider rack was my setup. No handlebar bag, bottle bosses on the down tube just above the bottom bracket, weight distributed low and towards the center. Draw a triangle over a bike with the top being your head ( your head or brain is the third heaviest organ ) one corner at your rear axle and the other at your front axle. Now this set up is for road touring, I can see how having panniers for back country single track touring would be a problem because of the width but at the same time some of the bags for Mt bike touring place too much weight up high. Check out Old Man Mountain racks they make racks for full suspension bikes.
 
#10 ·
Quercus agrifolia said:
I personally have come to prefer a bit of a hybrid system...lots of soft bags, but I much prefer a rear rack to a seat bag because it lets me use my seat dropper, and it is also generally a more flexible system...I can strap a dry bag to the top (typical), or use other attachment systems including panniers.
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This is the route I am moving towards. A handlebar bar, a frame bar, a top tube bag, a Tumbleweed T-rack with dry bag strapped on top. The T-rack also has three pack mounts as well as the fork so I can carry extra water or use three pack mount bags to carry extra stuff if needed.

I tried the seat pack. Not a fan. Hard to keep it from wiggling around, a pain to pack and unpack imo and limits dropper use.
 
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Discussion starter · #15 ·
KThaxton said:
I'm a bikepacking newb, but I chose a rack for both dropper post reasons and capacity. Not only dropper clearance, but the fact that my dropper wouldn't even raise up on its own with just a down sleeping bag in a saddle bag.

View attachment 1992515
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That's the setup I've been envisioning from this thread. On a fatbike too. I like the idea of being able to use a dropper.
 
#16 · (Edited)
DeoreDX said:
Why does this feel like it is going to be an expensive trial and error endeavor which I will and up with a lot of extra gear hanging around my garage
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It probably will end up as a bit of trial and error. You can always buy some more budget gear to start and upgrade to nicer as you find what works. Or find used gear.

I didn't spend a ton on my first trip. Alpkit Joey for like $15, Alpkit 20l airlok dual for $22, a cheap amazon top tube bag for like $15 and Porclein Rocket was having a sale on their classic seat post bag for like $80. So my bag setup for the first trip was around $130 and that plus a hip pack carried everything for a two night trip. It was a pretty decent setup.

I would recommend just getting a nicer top tube bag right away because IMO that is one of the greatest bags and I use it just on long day rides to carry snacks or on rides in town to carry a chain lock and personally wish I had of had a stem bag.

Since then I have bought a Jack Supply Co Slugger handlebar bag cause I found I would prefer a more traditional handlebar bag for easy access, added the T-rack (which I will strap the Alpkit dry bag to), a Makeshift stem bag and an Oveja Negra top tube bag. Once I finish building my rigid bikepacking bike, I will have a custom frame bag made. As needed I will add 3 pack mount bags.
 
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#17 ·
Harold said:
I have components of both systems. I tend to use the soft bags for bikepacking/camping types of stuff because the bike is more maneuverable with gear attached that way.

But the traditional rack and panniers setup gets used for town hauling duties. If all your carry is on a rear rack, then yeah, your front end is going to get light and squirrely. You have to balance that load up front, also, to maintain stability. For pure load hauling, this method can still haul more. Part of it depends on having a bike meant to haul this way. Part also depends on having racks meant to haul the load you have. Otherwise, things get flexy.

For bulky loads with odd shapes, strapping it to a rack is more likely to enable you to transport it, short of having a cargo bike. It's still the preferred method for long distance traditional tourers, yet you do see those folks also adopting soft bags where they make sense for the load they're carrying.
Click to expand...
This is a good point. The bike I had panniers on was a short wheelbase cross bike, which is not a great platform for loaded riding. A touring bike would have been way better, unfortunately touring bikes are no fun for any riding other than loaded touring.
 
#18 ·
It's all about the use case. Racks with panniers, front and rear, are impossible to beat if you are gravel grade/two-track or mellower. They hold more and are more accessible and convenient. Singletrack and HAB changes everything, then it's soft bags all day. In either case, I like having a rear rack. It makes everything better and easier. And heed the advice about keeping a low COG, it makes all the difference.
 
#20 ·
There’s no real problem with any gear. It all works fine for one purpose or another.

The concept of a "bikepacking bike” seems backward to me. In my mind, the outing comes first, then a bike gets set up, built or even bought for just that ride, then torn back down to a regular MTB or sold until the next multi-day outing.

You dabblers have it rough. Trying to figure out if you like something that you don’t know how to do worth a damn yet. The odds are against you, but that doesn’t mean breaking through noobdom isn’t a worthy goal. So keep psyched by whatever means necessary, including building up a bike you think is going make you like it. Someone else will buy your shyt if/when it's a bust.
 
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