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(RANT): Shimano 4 pot brakes are crap

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#41 · (Edited)
I have all but one of my bikes transitioned off the leaky and unrepairable shimano brakes. The bite point issue is a huge problem when it gets a little cooler, whether I'm riding in WA in the Fall or AK in most of the year. The piston seals weep on some of them, which contaminates the pads and I have to bake them to "bring them back". I've had the lever seal at the master cylinder give out a few times...one time on vacation and I was pissed about that one, because only the 000-series was available and their DI-whatever wasn't compatible with the old one I was using, so trying to attach a brake lever and my shifter on vacation was a nightmare. Screw that stuff. Give me individual rings for the parts and brakes where the company actually makes spare parts.

There are some things shimano does particularly well for brakes, like heat management and leverage (servo wave), but they sold their soul for mass production and the OEM market IMO. Most people don't hold on to their brakes more than a couple seasons, changing bikes or "upgrading". They do not stand the test of time IME. One of the biggest issues is 2 seasons down the road, I can't order a "seal kit" and rebuild the brakes...I'm just left hoping they don't give out at some critical time. That's scary.
 
#42 ·
I agree with a lot of Jayhem. I am in Shimano camp, and I usually sell my brakes every 200 rides, or yearly. Sometimes they get moved down the line on secondary bikes of mine, and I sell oldest set. I’m only on one bike this year, and my XT 4 pot are over 400 rides old. Yes they weep a bit of oil now. I would have bought HOPE if I knew this supply chain issue was going to happen, as I usually buy brakes at 30-40% off, but nothing is selling at discount anymore (if you can even get it). All in all, my brakes are okay at this point (400 + rides). But my “just ordered” new bike comes in next January, and I may need a plan for new brakes between now and then. I would hate for a road trip mechanical. This set is past their prime performance.
 
#43 ·
Jayem said:
I've had the lever seal at the master cylinder give out a few times...one time on vacation and I was pissed about that one, because only the 000-series was available and their DI-whatever wasn't compatible with the old one I was using, so trying to attach a brake lever and my shifter on vacation was a nightmare. Screw that stuff. Give me individual rings for the parts and brakes where the company actually makes spare parts.

There are some things shimano does particularly well for brakes, like heat management and leverage (servo wave), but they sold their soul for mass production and the OEM market IMO. Most people don't hold on to their brakes more than a couple seasons, changing bikes or "upgrading". They do not stand the test of time IME. One of the biggest issues is 2 seasons down the road, I can't order a "seal kit" and rebuild the brakes...I'm just left hoping they don't give out at some critical time. That's scary.
Click to expand...
I had forgotten about all the versions of I-Spec parts I had to buy and deal with to try and attach my shifter to the brake. And I had to buy pairs of them because Shimano was still so deep with 2X and 3X drivetrains.
 
Discussion starter · #44 ·
ToniT said:
Comparing a car meant for road use to a mountain bike is like apples to oranges.
Compare a proper off-road car (which is used off-road) to a MTB then come back here to report you lost all your money in a single session.

A better comparison is a road bike to a car, then you realize just how little to no maintenance is needed.
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Sorry, I also ride a road bike and that's simply not true. Brakes, hubs, bottom brackets, freewheel mechanism... All require regular attention if you don't want to destroy the bike.

Chains and cassettes last a lot longer and require less frequent cleaning and lubing. That's the only thing.
 
#45 ·
You really don't want to know how often track cars are maintained. Nor just how much it costs to maintain an off-road vehicle. Both of those are better analogs to higher end bikes. Vehicle hobbies make all this **** look cheap.

Anyway, I've never been a shimano brake fan.. but that is what it is. These days, I've been digging Hayes again, and they're fully rebuildable.
 
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#46 ·
ToniT said:
Comparing a car meant for road use to a mountain bike is like apples to oranges.
Compare a proper off-road car (which is used off-road) to a MTB then come back here to report you lost all your money in a single session.

A better comparison is a road bike to a car, then you realize just how little to no maintenance is needed.
Click to expand...
ALS650L said:
I had forgotten about all the versions of I-Spec parts I had to buy and deal with to try and attach my shifter to the brake. And I had to buy pairs of them because Shimano was still so deep with 2X and 3X drivetrains.
Click to expand...
yeah that I spec was a nightmare if multiple bikes. I also just use direct bar mount for each component.
 
#47 ·
Amt0571 said:
Sorry, I also ride a road bike and that's simply not true. Brakes, hubs, bottom brackets, freewheel mechanism... All require regular attention if you don't want to destroy the bike.

Chains and cassettes last a lot longer and require less frequent cleaning and lubing. That's the only thing.
Click to expand...
I ride road as well and I cannot agree with you.
Brakes - I have rim brakes, they last for ages and are dead simple to maintain.
Hubs - what about them? My old Ksyriums probably have close to 100k km, still work fine.
Bottom brackets - Replace when needed it's just regular maintenance and it's an easy quick job to do.

All the parts that were given as an example last way way longer on a road bike than on a MTB, but of course if you don't do simple regular (required) maintenance things don't last long.
And if you compare it to a MTB which has suspension to service, pivot bearings to take care of and not to mention every single part gets battered and abused.
 
#50 ·
The comparison to autos isnt really fair, if anything youd have to compare it to autos used in competition. At the top levels these vehicles need to be rebuilt after every race. Were talking stripping engines completely down to the crank, transmissions rebuilt. Not just an oil change, brake bleed, new tires. Bike components are riding the edge of performance too because of the constraints of weight and efficiency.
If anything, you should try rallycross. Its tons of fun. Take a passenger car and runnit hard off road. Youll be breaking things on it in short order. Ive snapped numerous driveshafts, bent rims, crumbled engine mounts, cracked transmission case, wrapped starter cable and shorted it, blown engine, shredded cv boots and joints.
 
#51 ·
I wonder if it’s your pad spacer spring. Try removing your pads and bending the spacer farther apart. This will make the spring compress with more tension against the pad backer. You may be hearing the ends of the pad spring making contact with the rotor. That would explain why you get more noise on bumps/at random.

Don’t forget to clean your caliper, reset the pistons, and real center the caliper after you pull the pads
 
#52 ·
Also, check this out

blisterreview.com

Tech Tip of the Week: Quieting Shimano Brake Pad Rattle | BLISTER

Shimano brakes are super popular, but their rattly brake pads can be annoying. Learn how to quiet them here.
blisterreview.com blisterreview.com

The article mentions the pad spring. I’ve never had an issue with the fins rattling against the caliper body but it’s worth a try while you have the pads out.
 
#54 ·
They're ****, long story short. My 4 pot m520 were nothing but issues. The elixirs that i replaced lined up perfectly even after pressing the pistons in a bit further for less free stroke. The shimanos i bought were nothing but issues, never lined up right. Turns out the pistons were cracked, sent back and bought trp's and never looked back
 
#56 ·
I have a pair of hayes brakes that have been passed down for >20 years b/c they were that weird model that had 22mm spacing. They still work fine. They might not be perfect, the might not be the lightest, but they are durable.

Contrast that to my shimano experience. They have gone from a very respectable 8 years (xtr 975 that required the shims) to 1 year before they started leaking. The model does not seem to make any difference in my experience. Some of the 975 calipers I had died sooner, some seemed to last forever and were moved to a commuter. Shimano brakes are lovely and simply need a new seal around the piston to extend their life, but shimano will not sell one. They used to be on sale often enough I just sucked it up and bought new brakes, but it is maddening and extremely wasteful. Why has no one found out the seal we need to buy? I would love to buy a set and resurrect my many shimano brakes that died due to leaky piston seals.

Also shimano seems to change their caliper hose attachment randomly just to be annoying IMO. Banjo, straight, new banjo...less with the levers now, but they used to swap those around too when in reality all the calipers and levers worked well together.
 
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