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K4izen

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I have a Newmen hub and wheelset. Fantastic wheels, rear hub not so much. Looking for recommendations based on the following:
  • toughest one that’s build like a tank that will last me forever and/or require minimal maintenance
  • most reliable (as above)
  • weight is not an issue
  • money is not an issue (you get what you pay for)
  • easy to maintain by a general bike mechanic, should he need to, with no difficulties
  • silence is a MUST if possible, I like a quiet ride

My bike: Raaw Madonna v2, 29”. Thank you.


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I am notoriously hard on stuff even though I only weigh 160lbs. I've been pounding my White Industries XMR's for 4 years now on the rocks/roots of NH without an issues. I ride a brick stiff carbon hardtail too so all the abuse goes straight into the rear wheel.
Edit: they are not quiet by any means, but I thought they had a silent option. I don't see that on their webpage.
 
Hi all,

I have a Newmen hub and wheelset. Fantastic wheels, rear hub not so much. Looking for recommendations based on the following:
  • toughest one that’s build like a tank that will last me forever and/or require minimal maintenance
  • most reliable (as above)
  • weight is not an issue
  • money is not an issue (you get what you pay for)
  • easy to maintain by a general bike mechanic, should he need to, with no difficulties
  • silence is a MUST if possible, I like a quiet ride

My bike: Raaw Madonna v2, 29”. Thank you.


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Onyx Vesper, completely silent
 
I read in the Onyx thread that rear hub NDS bearings were getting a bit gritty for a few people with minimal use, suggesting that it has a vulnerability to contamination. Didn't seem to be using a known brand of bearings. Looked it up and can replace it (6902). An NTN bearing in that size is like $20.

I have two sets of Onyx Classic. Just picked up one second hand. The one I had before is still flawless, while the second-hand one I got from someone in AZ is a bit gritty and has slightly more noticeable drag in the freewheel. The flawless one feels like it can replicate VitalMTB's test, where it freewheeled for 2 minutes, while I doubt the second-hand one can. Edit: tested it and it does 15 revolutions when giving it a twist, while gripping the rear wheel around its freehub, vs 11 for a DT 190 with 18t ratchet). Looked up how to service it, and looks doable. I picked up a slide hammer collet bearing (blind hole bearing) remover toolkit from Harbor Freight for under $50 that I figure would be useful for the task. Already have press tools from other press jobs needed on the bike.

I've tried i9, CK, and most levels of DT. The silence is truly luxurious. I don't understand the need for noisy hubs, unless you're some former BMX skatepark rat, who drooled at all the noisy hubs on the high end bikes. That doesn't work as well on the dirt as it does in those areas with kids on scooters whizzing around, maybe only alerting people 2-3 bike lengths away. Rather alert people 15 bike lengths away, with a loud enough bell.

I'm sold on Onyx. I hate loud noise, unless it's tuned to sound pleasing. One exception: I recall a hub sounding like a cricket/cicada, that I actually thought was nice.

Only other hub on my radar is the Project321 one. CK was kind of pricey to convert, but had some impressive sculpted detail and quality put into it; they just were a bit draggy and noisy. I had old i9s that were slightly draggy, and were system wheels with alum spokes. The alum spokes gave me more feedback with the ground, making me more in tune with where the wheels were and what they were doing, elevating my ride handling, but since I'm not so into high performance anymore, that finer grain feedback is just noise to me now. DT just worked flawlessly. Reliability was expected. I had an issue with old 350s yard sale-ing their guts whenever I pulled the wheel out of the dropout, due to the weight of the cassette pulling the freehub off if it was leaned in a direction that gravity could work on it. Didn't have that issue with 240s, since I guess the end cap had a more pronounced detent holding it. I learned that Centerlock versions of hubs also come with smaller bearings, which turned me off.
 
I am looking for a wheelset in 29" and it's a nightmare.
Thought I'd get it second hand but the the hubs just put me off. They are either super loud or low engagement, or both. (not taking about non boost wheels and 650b) choices are limited

I thought by now all the hub manufacturers would have developed something with decent engagement, rather many of them don't even state the POE on the website or tech documents..

Guess I am just spoiled by my project 321.
Had some oil leak so hoping new seals will solve this, even without the oil are super quiet, reliable, fast engagement. Can only think of onyx as an alternative now. Project is lighter. Same price

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I am looking for a wheelset in 29" and it's a nightmare.
Thought I'd get it second hand but the the hubs just put me off. They are either super loud or low engagement, or both. (not taking about non boost wheels and 650b) choices are limited

I thought by now all the hub manufacturers would have developed something with decent engagement, rather many of them don't even state the POE on the website or tech documents..

Guess I am just spoiled by my project 321.
Had some oil leak so hoping new seals will solve this, even without the oil are super quiet, reliable, fast engagement. Can only think of onyx as an alternative now. Project is lighter. Same price

Most people don't care about engagement, if they even know what it means.

For them, spending even $10 more to get "fast" engagement would make no sense, since they don't need/want/understand it.

Accordingly, the bulk of the hubs made for bicycles don't prioritize it.
 
Discussion starter · #11 ·
Thanks guys for the suggestions. Based on the responses here, and on posts recent and past, as well as some follow up research, right now I have my sights on some Onyx Classic.

Appreciate it!

RE: POE, I’m don’t care much for higher POE since I’m not really concerned about technical climbing. Especially not on a big slack enduro bike , LOL. But I guess it’s a nice to have.


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Onyx feels like the alpha and omega of hubs. I got one two christmases ago and while I can't specifically speak for the durability, having had no problems of any kind in a year and a half and 1000 miles of hard enduro/tech riding, the silence makes me feel like I'm another species. While I respect their quality, I don't understand the love of i9 or CK hubs since they're really exactly the same as the $80 Deore/Novatech hub that comes on 99% of stock wheelsets, except they are louder and engage a little/lot faster. Same experience. Onyx, at a 200g weight penalty, makes your bike into a different kind of vehicle. Love love love them. I have matching gold Onyx hubs with hand-built custom carbon rims and gosh golly they make me feel nice.
 
Anyway I see you said Silence is a MUST, so you found your hub (Onyx). Welcome to the club! Suggest looking at Fanatik right now, they are selling a We Are One+Onyx Classic wheel for $900, which is less than the cost of the rim + the hub for you, with free spokes and build. Their turnaround will be much faster (I think) than Onyx direct right now who has a 6-8 week wait on hubs. I want to buy one myself after I blew up my second cheap chinese carbon rim last week, but they don't have gold hubs in stock. :)
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Anyway I see you said Silence is a MUST, so you found your hub (Onyx). Welcome to the club! Suggest looking at Fanatik right now, they are selling a We Are One+Onyx Classic wheel for $900, which is less than the cost of the rim + the hub for you, with free spokes and build. Their turnaround will be much faster (I think) than Onyx direct right now who has a 6-8 week wait on hubs. I want to buy one myself after I blew up my second cheap chinese carbon rim last week, but they don't have gold hubs in stock. :)
This is tempting I’ll have to see if they ship overseas to Australia. Thanks for the heads up.


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Discussion starter · #15 ·
Onyx Vesper, completely silent
This is the option I’m going for. I wanted classic for the 2x instead of the 1.5x sprag however I’m not that heavy (provided I stop eating like crap). The only thing that is putting me off is the adjusting of preload. But hey, I’m here to learn!


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This is the option I’m going for. I wanted classic for the 2x instead of the 1.5x sprag however I’m not that heavy (provided I stop eating like crap). The only thing that is putting me off is the adjusting of preload. But hey, I’m here to learn!


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Curious how does one adjust the preload of an Onyx hub?
 
Depends on the hub and axle model. Onyx's YouTube account makes a good job in describing the procedure. Here's the video for the Vesper.

Onyxrp.com – Vesper Preload Adjust
I9, DT, and most sealed-bearing hubs don't need a preload adjustment. I wonder why the Vesper needs it.

As I recall, the first release of the Vesper didn't have a preload. So I suspect that they added a preload to fix a design problem... I really like the idea of the Vesper, but it does seem like Onyx has had their share of problems with the hub. In contrast, you don't hear about any problems with the Classic.
 
I9, DT, and most sealed-bearing hubs don't need a preload adjustment. I wonder why the Vesper needs it.

As I recall, the first release of the Vesper didn't have a preload. So I suspect that they added a preload to fix a design problem... I really like the idea of the Vesper, but it does seem like Onyx has had their share of problems with the hub. In contrast, you don't hear about any problems with the Classic.

DT's preload is built in. It's a process they perfected over time. Need precision (tight tolerances) to get it right.

DT also probably accounts for how the hub flexes under tension with spokes.

A lot of complexity behind the process to make things simple. Onyx spent a lot more time making sprags work. DT spent a lot more time making a hub that users don't have to think about, which just works, and is competitive on weight.

Onyx probably wanted to allow adjustment for variables that they were worried about, like metal expansion/contraction in extreme cold/heat. DT probably just hit for a sweet spot, figuring that people riding at extreme temps don't care for preload being a bit wonky, or aren't even thinking about it. I have no doubt that there are other factors I'm missing, like wear and tear, but all you need to think about is removing the play without adding extra drag with excessive preload. Onyx specifically markets low drag, and the preload tuning is probably part of that.
 
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