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Manitou Mezzer: Owners Thread [Setup & Tech]

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#61 ·
Busta Chan said:
Hi,
this is a great thread with lots of information about a great fork. I set up a little model in LibreOffice of the Mezzer Pro to see how the air spring curve changes with different pressures.
The idea is to compare two different settings.
View attachment 1916991
I used Dougals plot of the Mezzer curve as basis for a "curve fitting" to verify that I got the size of the chambers right. Thanks @Dougal for posting this plot!
Please keep in mind, that this is a rather simple model of the fork. Feel free to modify it. If you do so, please post your version here as well.

Cheers,
BC

Edit: the model is wrapped in a zip file with txt extension to upload it here. Didn't know I can't upload ods files directly.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind lower leg compression ratio is the thing that's hard to calculate. That's why to get 25% softer than 40/60psi you need 25/30psi and not 30/45psi.
 
Discussion starter · #62 ·
Busta Chan said:
Hi,
this is a great thread with lots of information about a great fork. I set up a little model in LibreOffice of the Mezzer Pro to see how the air spring curve changes with different pressures.
The idea is to compare two different settings.

I used Dougals plot of the Mezzer curve as basis for a "curve fitting" to verify that I got the size of the chambers right. Thanks @Dougal for posting this plot!
Please keep in mind, that this is a rather simple model of the fork. Feel free to modify it. If you do so, please post your version here as well.

Cheers,
BC

Edit: the model is wrapped in a zip file with txt extension to upload it here. Didn't know I can't upload ods files directly.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this contribution, very cool!

I have been playing around with it a bit and noticed something: the charts show a bit of travel at 0 force, where in reality it is going to be some amount of force generated before any travel begins.

Looking at the calculations (I may be wrong here), it appears that you are using the same piston area for main and negative force calculations. Is that true? While the main and negative pressures are equal at 0mm stroke, the negative pressure acts on a smaller area (must subtract the area of the air spring shaft). This creates some top out force.

On that path, we could add into the calculator an "equalization point", defaulting to 0mm, and allowing you to simulate disconnecting the pump with the fork slightly into travel.
 
#63 ·
Fantastic thread - checking my damper oil level on my Mezzer Expert and it says to use the Maxima damper oil. There are two on their site - should I go w/ the 3 wt or 5 wt? I don’t ride when it’s under 40F...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Discussion starter · #64 ·
I was talking to another Mezzer owner who had a conversation with Hayes about making the fork less harsh on high frequency bumps. This was the reply he received:

The rebound assembly in Mezzer is a tunable system, unfortunately we don't offer a specific tuning kit or guide for this sort of thing as that takes a lot of time and energy we're not staffed for at the moment. The one thing you can do is quite simple though:
8.5x0.25
8.5x0.25
12x0.1
9x0.1 <---- Remove the 9x0.1 shim
12x0.1
Piston
This is the 'old' RB tune. Give that a shot and let me know what you think!
-Zac @ Manitou
Click to expand...
I find this interesting for a few reasons: there seem to be dimensional errors in both OD and thickness; looking past this, he appears to be describing the MY21 stack and removing the ring shim.

Has anyone tried this?

I recently converted to the MY21 rebound stack. I have only had one ride on it, and still ran it with the rebound adjust fully open. The bike felt good, but I need more time on familiar terrain to get a better feel.
 
#65 ·
CCS86 said:
I was talking to another Mezzer owner who had a conversation with Hayes about making the fork less harsh on high frequency bumps. This was the reply he received:

I find this interesting for a few reasons: there seem to be dimensional errors in both OD and thickness; looking past this, he appears to be describing the MY21 stack and removing the ring shim.

Has anyone tried this?

I recently converted to the MY21 rebound stack. I have only had one ride on it, and still ran it with the rebound adjust fully open. The bike felt good, but I need more time on familiar terrain to get a better feel.
Click to expand...
So how can it be compare to this what was written in the first thread?
Where can I find this 9x0.1 shim?
  • Compression stack:
    • 8 x 17.5 x 0.1 ←[Dougal replaced with a 12mm, others remove it completely]
    • 8 x 17.5 x 0.1
    • 8 x 20 x 0.1
  • Rebound stack:
    • 13 x 6 x 0.1
    • 9 x 6 x 0.1
    • 13 x 6 x 0.1
    • 13 x 6 x 0.1 ← Remove for MY21 tune
    • 8.5 x 6 x 0.2
    • 8.5 x 6 x 0.2
    • 12 x 6 x 1.0
 
#66 · (Edited)
Dougal said:
Spring curves here.
Mezzer Pro with 40-60psi vs Mattoc Pro 40-80psi. That's 7.2 N/mm (41 lb/in) between 20-120mm. Fork was set to 160mm.
View attachment 1916330
Click to expand...
I'm assuming that spike at the end is the bottom out bumper? I'm guess that 10mm of stanchion left over when you compress the fork is 10mm of bottom out bumper?

That scaling in the rate though makes it pretty bad to look at. 0-20 and letting it run off the vertical axis would be a lot more interesting. Thank you none the less though.
 
#68 ·
There is not a "ring shim" on the Mezzer damper.

The face of the piston is concave, that 9mm shim actually keeps the other shims above the face shim from being preloaded. Removing that 9mm shim will actually increase damping.
 
Discussion starter · #69 ·
Ring shim was a misnomer.

I see how removing that shim would give an increase in damping, forcing both 13mm shims to deflect together instead of letting the first act alone for the first 0.1mm.

I guess their suggestion follows what he asked for, but I don't think he had a good understanding of what he needed. He thought cranking the LSR down would help in rough stuff, but I think it made things much worse.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk
 
#70 · (Edited)
Yeah, the Mezzer stack looks weird written down. Looks like a two stage stack. Not sure how much dish there actually is, but I don't think they were going for a two stage setup. It would be interesting to see dyno curves of the Mezzer damper. I'm guessing it's fairly digressive on rebound if the bleed is closed.
 
#73 · (Edited)
ForMartha said:
I'll be honest and say that the Mattoc is my pick if there was any price difference.
But the Mattoc pro and the Mezzer shares almost the same price.
Click to expand...
Have to agree there especially if your after a trail orientated fork, also an updated mattoc has been hinted about on the forums, so a new version is probably likely, interesting to see what changes are planned.

I'm kind of torn here as I have very fond memories of my time on the mattoc pro, it's a very good fork & in certain ways I preferred it to the mezzer, although if I had the opportunity to ride them side by side they may be more similar than I remembered, so kind of hard to give a direct comparison.
I rode both at 160mm & the air setups can change the feel of each a lot.
I'm still on a mezzer, but I am contemplating getting a mattoc for my wife bike, if I do I'll certainly do a "side by side unscientific experiment" before it goes near her bike.;)

If your just riding a diverse variety of trails & not going down the enduro path too often, then the mattoc is hard to go past, it's a bit more versatile & for me had the more compliant feel for general trail riding.
If you want to pursue more enduro style riding especially at higher speeds & when things get steeper then the mezzer has the firmer built for purpose feel to it.

I think in either case they both are not a super plush slow speed style of fork, not the way I had them setup at least, they both needed speed to come alive.
 
#74 ·
I have both in the Pro version, did run them on the same bike, honestly I prefer the Mezzer.
A friend that also rode both whas drooling over the Mezzer after we swapped bikes for a run.
Don't know how the Mezzer behaves on sub 140mm, I guess you would need to tune the volumes on the 3 chambers.
 
#75 ·
cashews said:
Have to agree there especially if your after a trail orientated fork, also an updated mattoc has been hinted about on the forums, so a new version is probably likely, interesting to see what changes are planned.
(...)
Click to expand...
If I had to guess, a sealed damper like the Mezzer, and maybe foot nuts like the Mezzer, and new lowers like the Mezzer, in short a mini-Mezzer, all the goodies less weight.
They could also go with 37mm stanchions, but completely unnecessary in my opinion.
 
#76 ·
Aglo said:
If I had to guess, a sealed damper like the Mezzer, and maybe foot nuts like the Mezzer, and new lowers like the Mezzer, in short a mini-Mezzer, all the goodies less weight.
They could also go with 37mm stanchions, but completely unnecessary in my opinion.
Click to expand...
34.5mm
 
#77 ·
irck said:
I'm interested in this as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
ForMartha said:
I'll be honest and say that the Mattoc is my pick if there was any price difference.
But the Mattoc pro and the Mezzer shares almost the same price.
Click to expand...
It depends on rider size. Mrs Dougal is riding a special build Mattoc Pro (custom damper tune, custom paint, some extra internal machining) which we only got finished a month or so back. I used the Mattoc chassis for lighter weight and less progression (it has a bigger IRT chamber).
If the rider was 90kg I'd put them on a Mezzer every time.

That said I haven't ridden either fork set to 140mm. 160mm is as short as mine go.
 
#80 ·
afraid said:
I'm pretty sure the air can remain, MAnitou actually has a decent service guide for this. I can't figure out what syringe to order, Manitou DOES NOT make this easy. Or what oil.
Click to expand...
Just any basic syringe from local pharmacist/drugstore. for oil it's the same as what they use for bath oil.
 
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