Thanking of upgrading my old medium Jabberwocky to a new large for Verhauen. Does anybody have pictures of the newest generation Verhauen in a large or med so I can compare?
thx
thx
Vassago Verhauen
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do you want the photos of mtbr users who have Vehauens that are still in one piece, or two pieces? hopefully they have resolved that.
I laughed and cried at this comment.
I have seen one locally they did that and yes it’s a concern. I was hoping to just get a new Jabberwocky keep getting delayed and delayed and delayed…
Any other recommendations? Surly Krampus how well will it handle trail riding and drops with a 120 -130 mm fork? Canfield nimble nine?
Any other recommendations? Surly Krampus how well will it handle trail riding and drops with a 120 -130 mm fork? Canfield nimble nine?
There are a lot of frames in the 120-130 range if you look through the 2020 SS frame thread on here. The Nimble 9 is built around a 150 fork, not 120-130. I'd personally go with an Esker Japhy or Surly Karate Monkey if you want a 130ish bike.
When the new Jabberwocky comes out, maybe it will be better than the older versions. Not sure if they are switching builders since there's been a lapse in time with that model. My problem with Vassago was less with the fact that I broke their frame (it happens) and more with how awful their customer service is. I'm a very easy going customer to have, but when you yank me around for 3 months while I am bikeless I will never buy from you again.
When the new Jabberwocky comes out, maybe it will be better than the older versions. Not sure if they are switching builders since there's been a lapse in time with that model. My problem with Vassago was less with the fact that I broke their frame (it happens) and more with how awful their customer service is. I'm a very easy going customer to have, but when you yank me around for 3 months while I am bikeless I will never buy from you again.
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It's not a VerHauen, but here's my medium Optimus which shares the same geo.
They're the same bike, one is Ti, one is steel.
I'm 5'9", average proportions, on a medium. 50mm stem
With a 120mm fork:
![Image]()
Slightly older pic with a (borrowed) 140mm fork:
![Image]()
Edit: that's a OneUp 210 dropper.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They're the same bike, one is Ti, one is steel.
I'm 5'9", average proportions, on a medium. 50mm stem
With a 120mm fork:
Slightly older pic with a (borrowed) 140mm fork:
Edit: that's a OneUp 210 dropper.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Chumba Sendero if you have the $$.
thanks for the replies. The Karate Monkey has a slack 71.5 seat angle sagged and not a lot of bb drop. My Chameleon has a slack SA too and would like something steeper. I like the longer the chainstays and bb drop on the Vassago and think it contributes a lot to how it rides. Impetus, your Optimus ti looks great with the fox 34 and the medium is perfectly proportioned but pricing is getting close to custom like a Walt works and would need to try a large before committing. That and issues like Single Speed Steven mentioned. I've been riding and following Vassago since 2009 and the original owner Kris. I'd buy a 600-700 jabber just to try the large (and burlier fork than float 32). Where are all the used Jabberwockys with 44mm head tubes? also looking at new honzo st, unit x and even checked with Chromag to see if any ss are in the future. Every time I see this Walt Works I think this looks like fun, long chainstays and all.
![1913509]( "1913509")
I know you probably think we are just being haters, but the Jabbers with 44mm headtubes are probably not around because most of them broke. I personally broke one, and knew of a couple others in the area I lived that broke them also. I'm not sure if I still have pics or if they are still posted in an old thread here, but the welds were some of the worst I have ever seen (which is where it broke). I really think they picked an awful builder for those frames and they just weren't built to last.
Check your frame welds, please!!
These are pictures of a frame failure I recently had on my Vassago Verhauen. They may not be indicative of this frame but it did occur and I want others to know. The break happened at a very low speed and I will never know why it didn't break a million other times while riding through rough...
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the headtube/ top tube weld started to crack on mine after a year. I mailed it back to Vassago and they replaced the top tube. they gave it a nice paintjob too. when I got it back, I immediately sold it with full disclosure of it's previous condition and bought a KM.
keep in mind that, if you want a bike with longer chainstays, most are listed at the shortest possible position. there's nothing stopping you from pushing the axle back and you usually have 2cm or so of adjustment.
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I guess if you wanna compare a WW to an OpTi, yeah they're close. And custom has definite appeals if no one is offering the geometry or design package you want.
That said- A Waltworks is $2200 to start, an Optimus/Radimus/Moose is under 2k. the VerHauen is 1300, so if you're comparing steel to steel and like the Vassago geometry it's not even close.
I'm not trying to sell you on titanium- I posted my OpTi solely because I interpreted your original post as wanting to see a mock-up of what a medium Vassago might look like. Mine is the titanium version of the VerHauen, so paint it some color (not raw ti) and there you go.
FWIW- my buddy rides a large Mooseknuckle. He's 6'1". I've ridden his bike, it felt too big for me.
Without getting overly 'fanboy'- there is really only a small period of time where Vassagos failed- Tom has acknowledged and addressed this (admittedly not to everyone's satisfaction). I'm sure it's tough being such a small operation, and he's a pretty hands-on guy. To my understanding, that fiasco is the reason there were only titanium bikes is almost entirely because his steel builder wasn't up to snuff and he had to completely revamp.
I'm not defending- just sharing what I've come to believe based on conversations.
I think your second point clarifies the first-
Whoever built the 2016 Jabberwockys did a bad job. I cracked one after about 1000 miles. Interestingly, It was replaced with a Verhauen (2017) that I rode right about 3k miles and was still in great shape when I sold it after buying the Optimus.
I don't think it's a headtube problem, or even a "steel Vassago" problem. I think it was a crappy Jabberwocky welder that the Verhauen doesn't seem to suffer from.
I completely understand, and like I said in my first post here I don't get too banged up over broken steel hardtails. It happens, and I have broken other frames from other brands just the same. My problem has always been with their customer service. I get it, he's a small operation and that's awesome. I love supporting small business like that. When you ignore my emails and calls for weeks at a time and leave me bikeless for upwards of 3 months (which is the better part of the riding season where I used to live) then I am not going to have good things to say about your company. It sucks, I get it that it's hard being a one man show. If he can't handle it on his own and that's the best he can do with his customer service, then he should consider hiring someone to help out.
I will also throw out there that at the end of the whole fiasco, I wasn't even happy with how things came out for me. I shipped the broken frame back expecting to get a replacement, and they didn't even have any replacements. They ended up sending me a Fisticuff gravel frame, for which I had little use. I still ended up having to buy another frame from another company so I had a mountain bike.
Maybe I just expect too much out of warranty claims, but at a bare minimum I was hoping for a little urgency from a company that touts being rider owned. How would they feel being off their bike for months on end because of a broken frame that they couldn't get a response about?
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@SingleSpeedSteven Yeah man, that's a raw deal. I'd be salty too. I don't blame you for your opinion.
It's such a same, I really feel like Vassago is hamstringing itself by the lackluster customer service.
It's such a same, I really feel like Vassago is hamstringing itself by the lackluster customer service.
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i also cracked the latest iteration Jabber at the TT and HT weld. I sent it back last December and it should be finished by now. I pinged tom yesterday to get an update. i'll probably keep it...TBD...but if anyone interesting in a large with a Ti ODIS fork let me know!
thanks Impetus. I don't even know if I want a new med or large. The cheap steel of the old V2 jabber ( no triangle gusset under the down tube) had held up to untold thousands of miles, drops, winters etc. and would order a large if available. Would love to have a ti hardtail like yours or custom steel but need to be more settled on geo and fit before spending that much. Also budgeted 6k for new full suspension bike with the Evil Offering current at the top of the list. Part of me thinks an e-bike would be a great contrast to a single speed which would still end up getting most of the ride time. Too much time to think with nothing in stock to buy
Might have been the first one in and last on out on Vassago in my area so nothing to try on for fit. I have a friend that had a medium VerHauen but it failed at the head tube and he's a good 70 80 pounds lighter. He replaced with Honzo St. here's a link for the WW in case anyone is interested: Personal Rides: Andrew's Custom Waltworks V2 (nsmb.com) geo is definitely different
Might have been the first one in and last on out on Vassago in my area so nothing to try on for fit. I have a friend that had a medium VerHauen but it failed at the head tube and he's a good 70 80 pounds lighter. He replaced with Honzo St. here's a link for the WW in case anyone is interested: Personal Rides: Andrew's Custom Waltworks V2 (nsmb.com) geo is definitely different
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The Vassago geometry hasn't radically changed, it's really more been 'massaged' or evolved over time. If you're happy on your current frame size, I'd feel safe going with the same size. It'll feel much the same but more 'modern'.
There's no need to go custom unless what you want doesn't actually exist; then obviously that's the way to go. At this point someone probably makes frame geo that agrees with you unless you're 6'6", like my buddy (he rides an XXL Santa Cruz)
Honestly, I don't advocate that "ti is better". It's damn expensive. I chose ti because of a boyhood crush on a titanium Moots that I borrowed from a mentor for half a race season in the 90's, and that I'm a bike-tart who hates scratches and chips. Ti doesn't chip.
Even as I was handing over my credit card, I questioned if I should have gone with a new VerHauen. Ti won out because it was in-stock and deeply discounted on a Black-Friday deal. I had a Canfield N9 with a DVO fork in the cart for pre-order, along with a steel RSD middlechild, but was too impatient to wait for the April/May delivery for either. I had my Optimus in-hand 8 days after I paid. the perks of living in Phoenix I guess.
I purchased my Jabber way back in 2008. Was a good bike. Then the BF deal on the Optimus was too good to pass up.
I'd also suggest sticking with the same size. If medium works for you now, same will work with the modern geo.
For what it's worth, Tom has been good about communicating with me. I do understand with a small operation, this will be hit and miss. Gotta go in with that expectation.
@Impetus - what does your Optimus weigh? I'm still building mine up. Probably will go PNW dropper (170mm).
I'd also suggest sticking with the same size. If medium works for you now, same will work with the modern geo.
For what it's worth, Tom has been good about communicating with me. I do understand with a small operation, this will be hit and miss. Gotta go in with that expectation.
@Impetus - what does your Optimus weigh? I'm still building mine up. Probably will go PNW dropper (170mm).
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