DSD Runt (Diaz Suspension Design) - A different alternative to MRP Ramp Control???

06HokieMTB · Nov 16, 2019

Gman086 said:
I believe their cartridge works better without the extra negative chamber volume (from the DeBonair shaft) but you'll have to ask them for full details.

Correct. Applicable only to the Lyrik.

06HokieMTB · Nov 16, 2019

not2shabby said:
Got a ride in yesterday and now I don't know if I want to try the non-debonair shaft or not...fork just feels soooo good!

What fork? Only the Lyrik is applicable to the non-Debonair recommendation with the Runt.

jscottyk · Nov 16, 2019

Gman086 said:
I believe their cartridge works better without the extra negative chamber volume (from the DeBonair shaft) but you'll have to ask them for full details.

Have FUN!

G MAN

Thanks! Just emailed them and will report back if I get more details.

mykel · Nov 16, 2019

Gman086 said:
I believe their cartridge works better without the extra negative chamber volume (from the DeBonair shaft) but you'll have to ask them for full details.

Have FUN!

G MAN

Sounds about right.
When Craig at Avalanche did my cartridge, he also did a mod to the airspring to reduce the negative volume. (2019 Yari/Lyrik airshaft.)

not2shabby · Nov 17, 2019

06HokieMTB said:
What fork? Only the Lyrik is applicable to the non-Debonair recommendation with the Runt.

Yari with the new Debonair shaft.

jscottyk · Nov 19, 2019

jscottyk said:
Thanks! Just emailed them and will report back if I get more details.

Anthony emailed this to me...

Yes we have found the Debonair to be too supple in the beginning of the travel. So "supple" that under lower pressures for lighter riders the fork does not even return to full travel under its own weight! They did this by moving the main piston quad ring 10mm past the transfer port in the stanchion tube. Doing this makes the fork want to sink 10mm into the travel will very little weight applied to it. Its basically unsupported for the first 10mm because the piston seal wants to sit on top of the transfer port where the pressures are equal between the two chambers. For this reason we recommend either replacing it with the old lyric assembly or at least running the fork with 10mm more travel than what you want to make up for the initial travel loss.

To get the old Lyric air shaft installed you will need to buy a whole air shaft assembly or an air shaft and lower air shaft seal head.

Also, I asked this clarification question, and will report back when I have more details.

Thanks for the additional information. This explanation makes sense. Do you think the issue would present itself for heavier riders? Say 190lbs ready to ride? I'm currently running 60ish psi on the lower chamber, and 108psi on the upper. That gives me a sag of ~25%. Also worth noting, this is in a 160mm Lyric RCT3 that has a Plush HC97 installed. The setup feels pretty darn good, but if I could improve things further with a non-debonair air shaft, I'm tempted.

not2shabby · Nov 20, 2019

Snap. Guess I'll have to put the old 150mm shaft back in and try it out.
I weigh 170 and run about 62 psi lower/ 105-110 higher in a 150mm Yari. It does sag about 10mm under just the weight of the bike.

jscottyk · Nov 20, 2019

not2shabby said:
Snap. Guess I'll have to put the old 150mm shaft back in and try it out.
I weigh 170 and run about 62 psi lower/ 105-110 higher in a 150mm Yari. It does sag about 10mm under just the weight of the bike.

Interesting. On my 160mm Lyrik, I'm doing some measurements comparing 85psi and 65psi (in the lower chamber) and not seeing the bike sag under it's on weight. I'm trying to find the cutoff.

mykel · Nov 20, 2019

150mm Yarilanche
85/165
Sags 8mm under its own weight.
Considering going to 160mm

not2shabby · Nov 20, 2019

mykel said:
150mm Yarilanche
85/165
Sags 8mm under its own weight.
Considering going to 160mm

Debonair shaft or non?

06HokieMTB · Nov 20, 2019

I've got my non-Debonair shaft to install in my 160 Runt'd Lyrik

BTW: i wish i was some of the weights listed in this thread! I'm a buck 93 out of the shower and tend to put a hurting on suspension forks

jscottyk · Nov 20, 2019

06HokieMTB said:
I've got my non-Debonair shaft to install in my 160 Runt'd Lyrik

I've got one coming my soon too. *hat tip to Gman086. I'm also curious about using a 170 Debonair air shaft for my 160 fork to see if there are any other advantages with the Debonair besides the larger negative chamber.

mykel · Nov 20, 2019

not2shabby said:
Debonair shaft or non?

2019 150mm Debonair

Gman086 · Nov 20, 2019

Gman086 said:
If anyone needs one I have a few standard (NON-DeBonair) Solo-Air air shafts lying around for cheap (works better with the RUNT):
11.4018.026.001 fits 27.5" 150mm Lyrik/Yari; 140mm 29'r Pike
11.4018.026.004 fits 27.5" 160mm Lyrik/Yari; 150mm 29'r Pike
11.4018.026.002 fits 27.5" 170mm Lyrik/Yari; 160mm 29'r Pike

Have FUN!

G

Down to these 2 left (thanks jscottyk!):
11.4018.026.001 fits both 27.5" & 29'r 150mm Lyrik/Yari; 160mm 27.5" Pike and 140mm 29'r Pike
11.4018.026.002 fits 27.5" 170mm Lyrik/Yari; 160mm 29'r Pike

not2shabby · Nov 21, 2019

Guess it doesn't matter what pressures you run with the Debonair spring, it's still gonna sag quite a bit.

not2shabby · Nov 21, 2019

jscottyk said:
Interesting. On my 160mm Lyrik, I'm doing some measurements comparing 85psi and 65psi (in the lower chamber) and not seeing the bike sag under it's on weight. I'm trying to find the cutoff.

So your's doesn't sag at all with the Debonair? Weird.

jscottyk · Nov 21, 2019

not2shabby said:
So your's doesn't sag at all with the Debonair? Weird.

I was incorrect. I messed with this tonight and found that after I warm it up a bit and get past the initial stiction it does sag about 5mm.

jscottyk · Nov 21, 2019

I had a conversation with Anthony and confirmed that pressures in the 60’s are low enough for the Debonair’s larger volume negative spring to have an impact on sag. I was not able to get any clarity about whether there were any other Debonair benefits that made it worth it to run a 10mm longer travel upgrade kit, vs using a solo air chamber.

So, being the good nerd that I am, I’m going to try both over the next few months and will report back. I have both arriving soon and will start by using the Debonair 170 upgrade (as a reminder, I have a 160 Lyric on a Trek Remedy) because I’ll be coming from a Deboniar setup. In particular, I’m curious if the alloy seal head and improved seals will make a difference, and also if larger volume negative spring has any benefits that outweighs they initial sag problem.

not2shabby · Nov 23, 2019

I've been wondering the same thing...if going to a 160mm Debonair shaft to actually get 150mm of travel would be better than going with the old 150mm shaft. The new Debonair is supposed to have less stiction. Can't wait to hear your conclusions!

jscottyk · Jan 1, 2020

jscottyk said:
... start by using the Debonair 170 upgrade (as a reminder, I have. 160 Lyric on a Trek Remedy) because I'll be coming from a Deboniar setup. In particular, I'm curious if the alloy seal head and improved seals will make a difference, and also if larger volume negative spring has any benefits that outweighs they initial sag problem.

Finally had some some free hours and installed the 170 Debonair today. Will report back later but one thing is for sure, the lost travel is back.

DSD Runt (Diaz Suspension Design) - A different alternative to MRP Ramp Control???

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mykel

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06HokieMTB

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mykel

Gman086

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