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The Truth about Life Expectancy: Vegan vs Omnivore

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I noticed that the vegans are too quick to point to incomplete studies claiming that vegans live longer than meat eaters.

The first link explains how the vegan diet (even with supplements) is not complete and does not extend a person's life. It has interesting information of how meat helps prevent Alzheimer's disease.

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2006/1/awsi/Page-01

Vegetarians suffer fewer heart attacks than meat eaters.24-37 Interestingly, this benefit dissipates as vegetarians age
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A fascinating paper recently published in the journal Mechanisms of Aging and Development presents an entirely new theory to explain why vegetarians do not live longer.41 It turns out that those who avoid eating beef suffer a deficiency of a nutrient (carnosine) that is critical to preventing lethal glycation reactions in the body
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Carnosine is highly concentrated in the brain, owing to the fact that the brain uses carnosine to protect against cross-linking, glycation, excitotoxicity, and oxidation. Animal studies show that carnosine provides broad protective effects in simulated ischemic stroke.73
Abnormal copper and zinc metabolism stimulates senile plaque formation in Alzheimer's disease.74,75Chelators of these metals dissolve plaques in the laboratory. Carnosine is a potent copper-zinc chelating agent that can inhibit the cross-linking of amyloid beta that leads to brain-cell plaque formation. A signature of Alzheimer's disease is impairment of the brain's arterial and capillary system. Carnosine has been shown to protect the cells that line the brain's blood vessels from damage by amyloid beta as well as from damaging byproducts of lipid oxidation and alcohol metabolism.76
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The second is a fair and balanced article that shows the basic flaws in the majority of vegan studies; they fail to qualify participants based upon lifestyle choices. ie. smokers, exercise, obesity and family history.

Who lives longest: meat eaters or vegetarians?
There are problems with this approach. First, finding a link between two things - such as eating meat and an early death - doesn't necessarily mean one thing caused the other. In other words: correlation does not equal causation. It may appear that vegetarianism and longevity are related but a different variable may explain the link. It could be that vegetarians exercise more, smoke less and drink less alcohol than their meat eating counterparts, for example.
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Most studies lump all carnivores into one group. Meat eating MTBers are grouped with McD's obese 3 Big Mac a day with large fries customers. Not really an accurate or fair study.
 
#2 ·
^^^Looks like you’ve got a little free time on your hands...you should rewatch Breaking Bad :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
#3 ·
You do realize that the first "article" is on a commercial site selling carnosine pills, the thing they are claiming vegans are missing? They even have carnosine "vegetarian capsules".

And the second link concludes with this:

So should I avoid meat for a long and healthy life? The key to healthy ageing probably does lie in controlling our environment, including what we eat. From the available evidence it is possible that eating a meat-free diet can contribute to this, and that avoiding meat in your diet could certainly increase your chances of avoiding disease as you age. But there's certainly also evidence to suggest that this really might work in tandem with avoiding some clearer risks to longevity including smoking.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
chazpat said:
You do realize that the first "article" is on a commercial site selling carnosine pills, the thing they are claiming vegans are missing? They even have carnosine "vegetarian capsules".
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Yes it is a commercial site, but that does not change the medical facts or accuracy of their statements.

As I summarized, the studies the vegans quote always lump all meat eaters together with the grotesquely obese. As a general rule, which both links acknowledge, vegans are more likely to workout and not smoke. Those two life choices are the main source of the longer life expectancy, not the absence of meat. If you compared apples to apples, vegans compared to mountain bikers and aerobics students who eat red meat, do you really think that the vegans would have a longer life span? Not likely, the medical evidence does not support it either. The medical evidence says eating red meat does increase your risk of heart disease by a few percent points. But again, they are lumping in all the obese McD large fatty fries eaters in the same group. The facts are that being vegan reduces the risks for some but increases the risks for others. So pick your poison.

A current study has shown that the age group of 35 to 50 has a higher mortality rate than the age group 60 to 70. Lifestyle choices, fatty foods, eating fast foods, watching too much TV, not exercising at all has caused that generation to die at a higher rate of all forms of cancer, diabetes, and heart diseases.
 
#5 ·
I'm not commenting on the premise of the thread but L-carnosine is an essential amino acid ONLY found in vertebrates. I'd agree with vegetarians/vegans that promote supplementing with it. Of course we've all heard ad nauseam that you can get complete protein from plants. I'm unaware of any actual studies of blood plasma showing carnosine production after ingesting beta alanine and histidine. There are, however, many studies that show the body can't synthesize carnosine.

With that said I think it's pretty self evident the lions share of Americans would be FAR healthier eating less meat and more plants.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Vegans suffered from 67 deaths from cancer, with a rate not significantly different from regular meat-eaters
https://veganhealth.org/cancer-rates-of-vegetarians/

84% of Vegetarians and Vegans Return to Meat.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...day.com/us/blog/animals-and-us/201412/84-vegetarians-and-vegans-return-meat-why

A Vegan himself, he was disappointed to learn that Vegans, Vegetarians and Meat Eaters all have the same life expectancy. ... Not getting into lots of debatable facts, statistics are problematic because you arr comparing a conscious population to one that is not.
https://www.diamondlantern.com/hypn...is-and-healing/meat-eaters-vegetarians-vegans-have-same-mortality-rates-unless/
 
#11 ·
What make's living longer such a worthwhile thing? Anyone can live longer but that does not mean they have a great quality of life. A lot of people that live longer out live all their friends and some family, and don't even relish being alive anymore. You can live longer and have all kinds of health problems which make living a real drag on you and family. You could be living longer but suffering. I would much rather prefer to be mobile and healthy while i am alive than just older for sake of living longer. Anyway, I just think the whole "living longer"thing tends to leave out considerations in terms of quality of life. I am not a vegan, but if you want hard facts about non meat diet's, you might want to skip all the inconclusive and sponsored studies, and just look at the animal kingdom. Some of the biggest, strongest, and longest living animals on the planet are plant eaters, or eat small fish like sardines, and krill. They also tend to be fairly disease free, which goes hand in hand with their longevity. No denying the bliss of a good home grilled steak with onions and mushrooms though.
 
#12 ·
WHALENARD said:
I'm not commenting on the premise of the thread but L-carnosine is an essential amino acid ONLY found in vertebrates. I'd agree with vegetarians/vegans that promote supplementing with it. Of course we've all heard ad nauseam that you can get complete protein from plants. I'm unaware of any actual studies of blood plasma showing carnosine production after ingesting beta alanine and histidine. There are, however, many studies that show the body can't synthesize carnosine.

With that said I think it's pretty self evident the lions share of Americans would be FAR healthier eating less meat and more plants.
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L-carnosine is not an essential amino acid (nor is L-carnotine). We are vertebrates, therefore we synthesize L-carnosine. Essential amino acids cannot be synthesized by humans, that's why they are 'essential' from a dietary perspective.

The lions share of Americans have for the last 40-50 years eaten less red meat and more carbohydrates. And you know the result of that. I don't have to type it out.
 
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#13 ·
The most important thing you can do for both quality and length of life is to pick your parents well.
Up until about a hundred years ago or so, everyone had to work hard for food and never quite had enough. Going back to those habits (count me out) probably would help as well. People who could walk from Pennsylvania to Colorado behind a wagon got pretty tough! I can't walk to the 7-11 for a Snickers bar.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I think most people with any kind of diet generally don't know what they need to avoid/limit in their diets for health, yet it has been known and documented for decades. The biggest problems with any diet is controlling the bad fats (trans, saturated fats), sodium, sugars, and carbs. These have been known to cause many health problems (diabetes, heart disease, cancers) especially if one doesn't exercise regularly (cardio and regular exercise plays an important role). Endurance and cardio exercise can help to counteract eating poorly somewhat in short term but eating poorly can have bad effects long term.

To me, the DASH diet still is the best diet around for health. It is balanced and can help reduce a lot of health issues. It has been around for decades, but all the fad diets have overshadowed the DASH diet.
 
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