Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
21 - 40 of 50 Posts
I ride FS and HT Singlespeed. When on steep climbs on my singlespeed I can slip the rear tire if the terrain is not idea and body position is not right. Most of the time I am working to keep the front end down and standing on my SS really helps that. However too much weight in front can cause the rear to slip. If that happens I will have to focus on less weight up front and more to the back. So that does mean shifting my body weight when standing. Hard to describe, but critical. Kind of like moving my butt back. It is important when standing climbing to get this right.
 
Seated climbing is why I ride Selle SMP saddles on my mountain bikes. By far, the most taint friendly saddles I've ever ridden. The only time I leave the saddle while climbing is if I have to lunge the bike forward over an obstacle.

 
I recently bought a lightish HT for local XC races. I haven't ridden a HT in a few years and I'm trying different techniques than I use on my FS bike.

When I get to the steepest part of the climb I'm shifting up a gear or two and standing up to attack the section. Yesterday my rear tire spun out on the 2 steepest sections and I reflexively shifted to a higher gear. But continued to slip out until I slowed down - not what I want to do.

Should I have shifted to a lower gear when the slipping started? Or gradually shifted up once I stand up and begin applying power? Tires are new Bontrager XR2, but I'm sure this is a technique issue, not an equipment problem.

Any tips would be appreciated.
No one asked what gearing he has in front/back???

Hey Russ, what gearing are you using in the front and back during these climbs? lol

I used to try the stand-up method, but now that I have a 0.55 ratio (22/40), I can climb all but the steepest stuff without much of an issue just sitting on the seat. It's a crawl but it works.
 
The OP is asking in the context of racing and attacking up climbs. Not crawling at walking pace. There is a time and place for that, but not if you want to be fast.

Standing and charging up a climb can be the fastest way up shorter climbs. Just need the proper technique and gear selection to make it work.

This one reason why SS can be so fast. You simple have to charge up the hills as there is no alternative with a 34x19 gearing.
 
Discussion starter · #28 ·
No one asked what gearing he has in front/back???

Hey Russ, what gearing are you using in the front and back during these climbs? lol

I used to try the stand-up method, but now that I have a 0.55 ratio (22/40), I can climb all but the steepest stuff without much of an issue just sitting on the seat. It's a crawl but it works.
30T chainring, Eagle NX cassette. I'd guestimate on both of those climbs was in cog 9 or 10 (32/36T) and shifted up at least a couple of cogs, so probably in the 25-28T range.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
The OP is asking in the context of racing and attacking up climbs. Not crawling at walking pace. There is a time and place for that, but not if you want to be fast.

Standing and charging up a climb can be the fastest way up shorter climbs. Just need the proper technique and gear selection to make it work.

This one reason why SS can be so fast. You simple have to charge up the hills as there is no alternative with a 34x19 gearing.
Yes, I'm trying to go fast, but maybe my strategy is wrong. Perhaps I should be standing before or/and after a steep section where I would lose traction. Then sit on the nose for sections to maximize traction. I'm sure as I get more experience shifting weight around the transition points will change.
 
Yes, I'm trying to go fast, but maybe my strategy is wrong. Perhaps I should be standing before or/and after a steep section where I would lose traction. Then sit on the nose for sections to maximize traction. I'm sure as I get more experience shifting weight around the transition points will change.
No way for me to know for sure since I don't know your trails. However since I ride both SS and FS geared in races I often wonder what is the fastest way up some stuff. The shorter the climb the value from staying in gear and just charge up a climb. I have seen it racing SS plenty of times where a geared guy starts dropping gears and speed when I am accelerating to charge up a climb. I fly right by as they are spinning like crazy. As climbs get longer and steeper the geared guys can start catching up.

So when racing geared the stand and hammer works best when you keep it in big gear and hit a dip and need to climb our or hit quick short climb. It is not as effective when you are already going slow unless the grade pitches up for a short bit or you need to hammer over a rock garden. You pretty much have to stand for rocky climbs on a HT to not get bounced around. Of course the trick is to really see what works best for you given the trail, entry speed, fitness and skill level. The goal is to be fast not cool so you want to find the technique and gear ratio that works the best. Also consider the trail after and any recovery that is needed. If you charge up hill fast and are totally gassed that slows you later on then it may not be the best plan.

So tough to have a blanket statement.
 
Discussion starter · #32 ·
Trek couldn't tell me the spec's, but the Bontragers are measured 27mm ext. So probably an internal around 23mm. XR2's are 2.2. I thought about going wider, but the price and weight of the Crest MK3's are really affordable. I'd rather put money into the hubs and move up a cassette to Eagle GX.
 
Trek couldn't tell me the spec's, but the Bontragers are measured 27mm ext. So probably an internal around 23mm. XR2's are 2.2. I thought about going wider, but the price and weight of the Crest MK3's are really affordable. I'd rather put money into the hubs and move up a cassette to Eagle GX.
Ignore eb. To him, wider rims solve all mtb problems.

You are going to have to play with your body position to be able to charge up climbs aggressively while standing to keep traction on the rear tire.

Preferably, session that climb until you find what works. Side benefit: sessioning climbs makes you faster.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
 
Any race over 15 sec he has to spread his energy, he can sprint before or after and be sure not to push his max when traction is minimal. Wider rims are slower so no good in XC. Just like extra grippy tires. Off course over some months in practice he can search and find his optimal position.
 
The optimal rim width, ime, for a XR2 Team 2.2 for sidewall support is around 30mm inner. I've run that tire since 2014 on 29.6 and 30mm inner width rims on a carbon hardtail. On that width rim you can reduce your pressure to below 20psi, possibly as low as 18 for a rear. The exact psi will depend on your weight and terrain. You can be limited by the combo of bike speed and how rocky/rooty the worst segment of your ride is for rim hits. If you're not getting rim hits in the rockiest spots reduce pressure until you are. Then add a pound. Guys add a rim protector like CushCore so they can go lower in pressure on wide rims when they have higher speeds to deal with.

The XR2s are designed for Trek by Frank Stacy Testing for wide rims, low pressure and max traction from a big footprint. They are higher volume with a more rounded tread pattern profile.
https://flowmountainbike.com/features/interview-frank-stacy-bontragers-rubber-wizard/
When you put this design on a wide rim the sidewall support lets the 120tpi very flexible sidewall crinkle down instead of fold over at lower pressures when you add torque. Like when you climb or change your line in a curve.
This gives you a big conformable footprint for maximum traction. When you compare this to the same tire at 24psi on a narrower rim you can think of it like airing down your Jeep tires to go rock crawling. You're going to have more capability from your vehicle at lower pressure. You still need good body weight positioning and smooth power application techniques. You'll still reach limits. You'll have more traction to work with.

The 2.35 XR2 Team is matched to a 35mm inner and Mikesee in Park City is running the 2.6 new XR2 Team on 40mm inner rims. You can mix rim widths and tire widths front to back, also. Most non Boost RockShox and Fox forks will take the 2.6 XR2.

I've had the 2.2 on a 30mm inner rim as a front tire as low as 11.5psi. The footprint and traction were phenominal but rim hits were too much by far so 14 is my standard for a front. You have to experiment to get what works for you.

I use carbon rims from CarbonFan for good stiff but still comfortable builds with Sapim Laser spokes. They keep wheel weight down in the reasonable range. I don't mind a few grams to gain more cornering and climbing speed. Overall I come out ahead with much better control over how my tires behave when pushed to lose traction.

If you want to test this with your current rim width air down your rear to 18 psi at the bottom of your tough climb. You'll be ok at low climbing speeds going mostly straight. When you get to the top go back up to 24 with a hand pump.
 
As a SS HT and HT geared rider I have to agree with JoePAz. I catch and pass many riders on climbs on my SS. I know part of this is about pacing and what has to be done to make a SS keep moving, but there is something to be said for picking a gear and sticking with it. My experience is that it is almost never better to shift mid climb unless the terrain changes drastically.

I can't tell from the info you have given in this thread how long or steep the areas you are experiencing spin really are. These things are nearly impossible to put into words anyway.

I seem to have more questions than answers:

Are other riders of similar fitness and strength on similar equipment making this climb faster? Are you sure?

Will you be riding an event on the climbs in question again? If so can a spectator shoot video so you can analyze one of the climbs?

Or can you session it with a friend and shoot video? The ideal would be to ride with a friend that can perform the way you want to. Then you can session the climb a few times and get video of both.

If you can session the climbs or another one that is similar I would mess with tire pressures too. My approach is simpler. Let our a few psi and see if it improves. If it does, decide if you can live with that pressure for the entire race. If yes, great, if not you haven't found a solution yet.

Finally, I have to say I appreciate your attitude. It is refreshing that your first thoughts are to improve what you are doing and to not just blame the equipment and throw money at the problem. When I ride in a group of fast riders I'm always amazed at how fast and capable modern mountain bikes really are. I notice that a skinny tire 29er, a plus tire bike, HT, FS, and SS can all really hang neck and neck for miles and miles on single track. Sure equipment matters, but sometimes it is more about the rider than anything.
 
Tire selection and pressure have very little to do with any of this. It's 99% technique. Chose a harder gear and get more weight on the rear tire. This technique is tricky indeed!

The only equipment selection that might help is to change the position of your hands with a change in handlebar or stem.

Core strength is vital here. If you can't stabilize the bike as it is braced between your hands and feet by means of locking down your core, you're not going to make it. Start doing bridges, planks, Russian twists, etc to start getting stronger. That will help immensely.
 
Seated climbing is why I ride Selle SMP saddles on my mountain bikes. By far, the most taint friendly saddles I've ever ridden. The only time I leave the saddle while climbing is if I have to lunge the bike forward over an obstacle.

View attachment 1215857
These saddles only make sense. Definitely on my to buy list.
 
Will you be riding an event on the climbs in question again? If so can a spectator shoot video so you can analyze one of the climbs?

Or can you session it with a friend and shoot video? The ideal would be to ride with a friend that can perform the way you want to. Then you can session the climb a few times and get video of both.
Yes, definitely. Video is a great tool for sessioning stuff. So is sessioning stuff with a group of experienced riders. Especially if some of those others are able to clear that spot easily and can watch you and provide advice. In a pinch, you can even do this solo. Set your phone or other camera up on a tripod like the Gorillapod, or on a tree that has a good view of the spot where you have trouble. Record, then ride. Bonus if you do it multiple times. You can sit and watch and analyze your different attempts. Extra points if you can find video of other people on the same spot online.

eb would probably tell this guy that he needs wider rims and lower tire pressures to solve his troubles. Here's how he made it...lol
 
Discussion starter · #40 ·
Thanks to all for great discussion and tips. I'm very fortunate in that this XC trail system is within 200 yards of my house, so the opportunity to sessioning is right there. Putting together the info I'll try some changes.

The first climb is 0.5 mile long about 250 ft gain, with a ramp up near the top. The steepest section is about 30 feet and softer than the rest. First I'm going try gaining more speed in the entry to that section, then stay seated for the soft part with nose of the saddle technique. I've ridden this many times on FS using this technique and never slipped, so reversing my approach may be all I need.

The second steep section has an A and B line. The A line is around 50 ft very steep with a couple rocks to navigated. One rock section right at the start that you have to roll hard to not loose momentum. On the FS I've only made this climb twice out of a dozen or so attempts. With the HT and 29" wheels I'm hitting it faster and charging while standing. I slip out, but just keep churning. I think it's a matter of gear choice and I should just session it, trying a slightly lower gear and with weight positioning, hands pulling down.

Regarding air pressure - I'm hesitate to drop too low because I think it would be slower for the majority of the race courses. I'll try a couple pounds in the rear and experiment.

And of course strength and conditioning is always the most important. I'm having so much fun on the HT that I'm riding harder and longer sessions. Having fun trying to get PR's on the many defined segments of the trail system.
 
21 - 40 of 50 Posts