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Rockshox Pike Charger2 Bladder

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ben_mtb

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I was disassembling Pike Charger2 damper to see how shim stacks are setup and how they compare to previous charger damper. Shockwiz was recommending to reduce HSC for me, it was in the red zone. Since manual does not show how to disassemble the charger2 I was improvising and slightly damaged the bladder. It seems to be fine and there are no visible leaks.

However, what are my options for getting a spare bladder rubber if something happens to it? Spare parts diagram does not list it as an individual part. And I don't want to buy the whole damper. Can LBS order it for me? Does anyone know if previous gen charger bladder is the same as charger 2 bladder?

Appreciate any help.
 
#5 ·
ben_mtb said:
I was disassembling Pike Charger2 damper to see how shim stacks are setup and how they compare to previous charger damper. Shockwiz was recommending to reduce HSC for me, it was in the red zone. Since manual does not show how to disassemble the charger2 I was improvising and slightly damaged the bladder. It seems to be fine and there are no visible leaks.

However, what are my options for getting a spare bladder rubber if something happens to it? Spare parts diagram does not list it as an individual part. And I don't want to buy the whole damper. Can LBS order it for me? Does anyone know if previous gen charger bladder is the same as charger 2 bladder?

Appreciate any help.
Click to expand...
Did you measure the shim stacks? I'm curious about the setup.
 
Discussion starter · #7 ·
two-one said:
Did you measure the shim stacks? I'm curious about the setup.
Click to expand...
I took some pictures and measurements.

Rebound:



Compression:



Pretty much what Dougal said. I moved the preload on compression side two shims up and went for a ride. It feels better, but Shockwiz still shows HSC in the red zone for me. I have some ghetto ideas about improving the flow on the mid/check valve, based on the prev-gen pike thread. I'll post if it works out.
 
#8 ·
ben_mtb said:
I took some pictures and measurements.

Rebound:
View attachment 1204071

View attachment 1204072

Compression:
View attachment 1204073

View attachment 1204074

Pretty much what Dougal said. I moved the preload on compression side two shims up and went for a ride. It feels better, but Shockwiz still shows HSC in the red zone for me. I have some ghetto ideas about improving the flow on the mid/check valve, based on the prev-gen pike thread. I'll post if it works out.
Click to expand...
Interesting. So is the rebound piston actually a different size now? I didn't think they changed pistons but according the the service manual the old charger hade 16mm rebound shims so 13 wouldn't cover the ports.

I guess you can't just re shim a charger 1 to make a charger 2?
 
#12 ·
Jesse Hill said:
Interesting. So is the rebound piston actually a different size now? I didn't think they changed pistons but according the the service manual the old charger hade 16mm rebound shims so 13 wouldn't cover the ports.

I guess you can't just re shim a charger 1 to make a charger 2?
Click to expand...
There is no real reason (other than RC2 variant) to run a charger 2 over a charger 1. The 1 has better parts supply (bladders, tubes etc) and performance wise there's no reason to swap. A Charger 1 with 2 less compression shims is almost exactly the same tune as Charger 2. I don't rate either out of the box.

The 2 does look significantly cheaper to manufacture. Which is matched by lower prices in some situations.
 
#13 ·
Dougal said:
There is no real reason (other than RC2 variant) to run a charger 2 over a charger 1. The 1 has better parts supply (bladders, tubes etc) and performance wise there's no reason to swap. A Charger 1 with 2 less compression shims is almost exactly the same tune as Charger 2. I don't rate either out of the box.

The 2 does look significantly cheaper to manufacture. Which is matched by lower prices in some situations.
Click to expand...
Interesting. What about the rebound going from digressive to linear? I know the charger 1 setup in soft tune is linear but medium and firm are both digressive. Can't say I'm unhappy with either (charger 1 on boxxer and charger 2 on Lyrik). The new HSC adjuster on the new one would be nice vs the 3 setting threshold or re shimming the charger 1 but they won't sell just the compression assembly for the charger 2 and definitely not worth the 300.00 for a complete. It is pretty disappointing Rockshox going back to their limited support business model that they used to have, they've lost customers in the past due to that.
 
#15 ·
Jesse Hill said:
Interesting. What about the rebound going from digressive to linear? I know the charger 1 setup in soft tune is linear but medium and firm are both digressive. Can't say I'm unhappy with either (charger 1 on boxxer and charger 2 on Lyrik). The new HSC adjuster on the new one would be nice vs the 3 setting threshold or re shimming the charger 1 but they won't sell just the compression assembly for the charger 2 and definitely not worth the 300.00 for a complete. It is pretty disappointing Rockshox going back to their limited support business model that they used to have, they've lost customers in the past due to that.
Click to expand...
It takes about 5 minutes to change rebound tune when you have it apart and the linear option is always there. Feel free to experiment and see which you like best. I prefer linear.
 
#17 ·
Dougal said:
It takes about 5 minutes to change rebound tune when you have it apart and the linear option is always there. Feel free to experiment and see which you like best. I prefer linear.
Click to expand...
Right but at least in terms of the boxxer they consider the "soft" rebound tune linear. Is that what you are talking about or are you just removing the ring shim to make it a "medium" linear tune?
 
Discussion starter · #18 · (Edited)
For anyone interested, I found and bought a new spring and rebuilt the damper midvalve with it.

These are my back of the napkin calculations for old and new spring:

springlength (m)fully compressed (m)delta (m)weight at full compression (kg)force (N)stiffness (N/m)
original0.00340.00130.002119.84666.666667
new0.00660.00130.00530.333.234610.1886792

Force when springs are compressed to 2 mm (when installed into piston):
Code: 
F (original) = (0.0034 - 0.002) * 4666.666667 = 6.533333333 N
F (new)      = (0.0066 - 0.002) * 610.1886792 = 2.806867925 N
The difference is about 2.3x. I have one ride so far and the shockwiz shows HSC in yellow and still suggests to soften it. (It was in red before). I need to put more rides and see if it consistently in "yellow" or not.

I'm not sure if midvalve is still the bottleneck or not. What are my options for DIY HSC softening? I can think of:
1. rebuild the damper with lighter oil (maybe rockshox 2.5w instead of 3).
2. remove preload and some shims from compression stack.

I might do both sometime just to see shockwiz telling to add HSC.

Edit: Fixed floating point error from m to mm convertion.
 
#20 ·
TigWorld said:
Looking at the rebound piston and its associated shims, I don't see anything in the way of a mid-valve. I only see a checkplate for rebound oil flow and its associated spring. Is this the spring you changed?
Click to expand...
Isn't it a better idea to soften the midvalve by using 2 thinner shims that are able to flex, instead of the normal thick shim? So when the oil flow starts to increase, the shims bend around the spring easier?
I say 2 thin shims instead of 1 because of durability issues. So I would guess a 0.1x11mm and a 0.1x13mm shim.
 
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